If they could know the sexual orientation of a fetus

[RKenshin]

I agree, but again, who's rights is it? The woman's right to cherry pick, or the fetus's right to privacy?

I think the serious counter-argument has more to do with the societal implications, than 'the fetus' right to privacy'... that just sounds a bit strawman-ish.

Do we allow something as subjective as personal preference to shape our future generations, and ultimately our society? Or do we limit how much that can be manipulated?

[Correction]

Can't wait for the first child a homophobic couple lets live ends up gay anyway.
Or infertile.
Or has downs.
Or cystic fibrosis.

Because there's nothing more important than making sure your spawn aren't gay.

[Tagus]

There's no bad knowledge... only bad people. That's my theory.

[Blubbartron]

Can't wait for the first child a homophobic couple lets live ends up gay anyway.
Or infertile.
Or has downs.
Or cystic fibrosis.

Because there's nothing more important than making sure your spawn aren't gay.

You laugh, but being born gay to an anti-gay couple is quite literally worse than death. Have you seen the places those fuckers will throw their kids in, hoping to "turn them back to JAYSUS"? Torture camps for teens, man.

[Correction]

You laugh, but being born gay to an anti-gay couple is quite literally worse than death. Have you seen the places those fuckers will throw their kids in, hoping to "turn them back to JAYSUS"? Torture camps for teens, man.

They'd put their straight children through similar torture like enrolling them in catholic school and throwing purity balls. You can't help psychopathic parents very much.

[hey]

There's no bad knowledge... only bad people. That's my theory.

This.

I really don't think that many people would abort for this. And if they did, then so be it, that's their right.

I agree, but again, who's rights is it? The woman's right to cherry pick, or the fetus's right to privacy?

Since when does a fetus have a right to privacy from their parents? That doesn't kick in until they turn 18 afaik.

[Galkaeater]

Ban science, it is too dangerous for humans.

[Psion]

You laugh, but being born gay to an anti-gay couple is quite literally worse than death. Have you seen the places those fuckers will throw their kids in, hoping to "turn them back to JAYSUS"? Torture camps for teens, man.

I wouldn't say worse than death, but it's close. Having been in this situation myself, i can say my self-confidence and image is still in tatters after over a decade and a half, and i don't think it will ever really begin to heal unless i find a bf who's able to tolerate me long enough to heal up.

As far as my own view goes, i object to abortion based on grounds of sexual orientation or non-medical issues, because such random natures are important to humanity in general. the less genetically diverse a species is, the more prone it is to dying off whenever a crisis appears. people with dark skin tend to show up in hot climes for instance, while pale skinned people are well suited for cold climes with long nights near the poles, where they can absorb as much sunlight as possible. our species is full of such genetic diversity, and if everyone starts following the latest trend in what's sexy, we risk losing that innate protection.

Also, i will say this. i was a born-again christian myself before i hit puberty and discovered i was gay. a very devout one, in fact. I was also, unfortunately, a total bitch without realizing it. I would see other people sinning, and try to "save" them. I would see myself as superior to them in a way. Then i hit puberty, realized i was into men, and experienced a taste of hell. suddenly it was i who was the sinner, and i was lost trying to cure myself of my sins. exorsism, fasting, praying, you name it. it went on for years, and the only reason i didn't commit suicide was because i was too afraid to. then, i found out my three best friends were wiccans, and the added conflict of having to hate what they were, yet seeing how they were the kindest, cheerful people i'd met, made me question my beliefs.

when i finally accepted myself for who i was, it really opened my eyes to how different everyone is from each other, and that it's those differences that make life wonderful. if it weren't for me being different in my sexual orientation, if it weren't for my friends being different in their beliefs, i would likely have kept believing in my superiority and being a jerk to others without realizing it. instead, i found the courage to stand up for myself, and although i did experience hell coming out to my parents (they pretty much kicked me out, i had to use my collage bond funds and a full time job to survive for a few years), in the end... i wound up making them accept me for who i was, instead of what they wanted me to be. they've mellowed out quite a bit, even if they are still Christians, and i think they've become better people because of it. it's true that i'm still instinctively afraid around them... i still can't fell comfortable around them at all, and i don't think i can love them the way a child loves their parent anymore... but i'm also proud of how much they've grown as people over the years. if we remove all the "unfavorables" in life before they have a chance to begin, i feel that humanity will be worse off because of it, because it's those challenges that promote true spiritual growth.

(i'm sorry at how rambleish this post is, i've only had 3 hours sleep. my friends always say i suck at explaining things concisely. XD )

[Blubbartron]

sad shit

Sorry to hear about your rough formative years, but I wasn't talking about self-inflicted misery. I was talking about the parents who send their kids off to Jesus camps where they actually torture kids for months (sometimes years) at a time. If you're not aware, they do some really heinous shit. Here's one survivor's tales. Most of the first-hand accounts at r/troubledteens will make your skin crawl that there are people that would willingly do this shit to children.

[Acevalefor]

Ban religion, it is too dangerous for humans.

ftfy

[Andalusian girls]

i for one welcome the formation of a super babies master race

[Acevalefor]

Nature loves diversity and purposely places seemingly random, out-of-place things in very unlikely places to impose diversity. This is true for humans as well. Giving people the opportunity to selectively cull the herd even before birth is tantamount to destroying our survivability.

[Meresgi]

What type of gay are we talking about? Fruity over the top or just regular gay? Like am I having Milkster as a kid?

[Psion]

Sorry to hear about your rough formative years, but I wasn't talking about self-inflicted misery. I was talking about the parents who send their kids off to Jesus camps where they actually torture kids for months (sometimes years) at a time. If you're not aware, they do some really heinous shit. Here's one survivor's tales. Most of the first-hand accounts at r/troubledteens will make your skin crawl that there are people that would willingly do this shit to children.

The thing is, a lot of the misery IS self-inflicted. you're raised to believe that you are a horrible sinner and you need to be exorcised of your demons, and that kind of belief makes you go along with the crazy shit your parents "suggest" to cure you. i didn't come out to my parents willingly at first. they found out, and that's where the misery began. it wasn't until years later when i accepted myself for who i was, that i came out for real, telling them that i was gay, i didn't believe in their god anymore, and that i wasn't ashamed of either. i may have not gone off to a jesus camp, but i did experience quite a bit of unpleasantness myself, and i know firsthand just how horrible it can be. it's not just people inflicting physical or mental torture on you. it's them doing so, and convincing you to do it to yourself, and believe you're doing it of your own violation. that kind of stuff fucks you up for a long time.

Like i said, i still instinctively avoid my parents whenever possible. i can't even say i love you to them, because its a lie. even though i know mentally that they aren't such bad people anymore, and what's past is past, deep down i can't just get over the mental scars that were inflicted both by my parents, and myself when i trusted in them.

When your own parents tell you things as a kid, you tend to trust and believe in them, because you're a kid. even if they tell you to be miserable at yourself. even if they tell you to hurt yourself. you don't need a jesus camp to experience such torture.

[Khajit]

If one was to determine if a baby is gay to my understanding it would probably have to do with checking hormone levels so abortions wouldn't really happen because at the level of tech needed to monitor everything like that you could just regulate the hormone levels after checking for X or Y.

[Correction]

If one was to determine if a baby is gay to my understanding it would probably have to do with checking hormone levels so abortions wouldn't really happen because at the level of tech needed to monitor everything like that you could just regulate the hormone levels after checking for X or Y.

There would still be a margin for error, and no ethical doctor in the world would say 'hey your baby has a 60% chance of being gay, let's abort/pump your baby full of hormones/fix this "problem" somehow.'
This thread is an exercise in trying to trap pro-choice proponents into a stupid contradiction.

[quannum]

ethical doctor

http://www.nndb.com/people/986/00021...ay-1-sized.jpg

[Xantavia]

To not derail too much into religion, but if you still believe Psion, do what I do. Tell yourself that being a good person in life but not actively trying to harm another person should be good enough if there are any gods out there. I'm not going to brown-nose to deities, and if they want it, I'm ornery enough to say fuck them, I don't want any part of it.

On subject, this is a horrible idea. Nobody should be able to choose who lives and who dies based on something as relatively meaningless as homosexuality. Would people even entertain this thought if parents had the right to have their kids executed at 18 because they were gay? I'm pro-choice, but I see a definite difference between not wanting a kid period and not wanting a kid because of X.

[Khajit]

There would still be a margin for error, and no ethical doctor in the world would say 'hey your baby has a 60% chance of being gay, let's abort/pump your baby full of hormones/fix this "problem" somehow.'
This thread is an exercise in trying to trap pro-choice proponents into a stupid contradiction.

That depends entirely on point of view because any doctor willing to do said procedure would probably be more than willing to consider it correcting hormone imbalance. It would be about as ethical as stopping middle aged ladies from dealing with menopause.

[Ksandra]

I'm pro-choice, but I see a definite difference between not wanting a kid period and not wanting a kid because of X.

Many abort when they find out their kid has down's, and it may not have anything to do with money.