White and male, Google releases diversity data

[Correction]

A little off topic I guess...but I never understood why this is an issue. Unless I am missing something according to this ( http://dmvanswers.com/questions/419/...-ID-cards-cost ) every state lets you get an ID for under $30 bucks except Oregon. Most let you get one for far less then that.

If they are not free, it's a financial impediment to voting. There's also the issue of access to the DMV for someone making minimum wage. You can't exactly take time off to drive there if your boss will just replace you the second you need a few hours to take care of something mandated by law. And there's the fact that these laws are generally timed to pass almost immediately before an election, and would disenfranchise millions simply because the deadlines prove impossible to meet. For these laws not to disenfranchise minorities disproportionately they would literally need to drive the application process directly to people's doorsteps, on a Sunday, and make the whole process free of charge.

[ronin sparthos]

A little off topic I guess...but I never understood why this is an issue. Unless I am missing something according to this ( http://dmvanswers.com/questions/419/...-ID-cards-cost ) every state lets you get an ID for under $30 bucks except Oregon. Most let you get one for far less then that.

The question you should be asking is why you need an ID at all. Honestly, the reason I have ID at all is because as soon as I turned of age, I needed it to avoid being held by cops cause I'm a minority and we know how much the legal system loves us. Previously, I just had school ID and thought that sufficient. Voter fraud is a very rare occurrence yet a national push was floated during and after a defeat in an election campaign? Further the colorful language thrown around by not so subtle politicians. The effort was entirely to disenfranchise minority voters under the paper thin auspices of 'protecting the integrity' of the election process.

Worse still, the attack on pre-voter registration, cutting down poll hours and shortening windows to register. All of it designed to harm the poor and downtrodden to slant an election a specific way. But hey, not institutionalized racism or anything.

[Meresgi]

If they are not free, it's a financial impediment to voting. There's also the issue of access to the DMV for someone making minimum wage. You can't exactly take time off to drive there if your boss will just replace you the second you need a few hours to take care of something mandated by law. And there's the fact that these laws are generally timed to pass almost immediately before an election, and would disenfranchise millions simply because the deadlines prove impossible to meet. For these laws not to disenfranchise minorities disproportionately they would literally need to drive the application process directly to people's doorsteps, on a Sunday, and make the whole process free of charge.

I did always like that social services and DMV in this area all close at like 4:30 and open at 9am...da fuck?

[Blubbartron]

It feels like we're getting further and further away from the central point the more you get hung up on whether or not I'm convincing you of the motive underpinning the status quo. The policies of our fine society have stacked the deck heavily against minorities, whether or not they intended it, it has happened. So it must be combated. It's as simple as that.

The difference is you think the deck is stacked against minorities, and I think the deck is stacked against poor people. The motive is important. The way you fight the deck depends on how/why the deck is stacked the way it is. You don't fight the fact that poor people are screwed over by trying to help out blacks (or any other specific minority) in particular. It's ignoring the root cause.

Voter ID laws drafted that most negatively affect blacks/hispanics who often lack drivers licenses/state ID due to income, location.
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Banks less likely to give out loans to blacks/hispanics due to lagging collateral, generational capital and fears the business will fail in comparison to white peers caused by racist government policy put into practice?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Shitty neighborhoods carved out for blacks/hispanics or white flight effect in conjunction with marked decreases in public services including safety and general divestment in community?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Even shittier subprime home loans floated to mostly blacks/hispanics alongside using churches as a means to spread this contagion which hit hard when the housing market went to shit setting black/hispanic homeowners back decades?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Public services that magically return to black/hispanic neighborhoods once the hooks of gentrification take effect and said blacks/hispanics are priced out?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Rockefeller Drug Laws, Reagan-era war on drugs?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

You apparently think that racism is determined by effect instead of intent. You're wrong. Voter ID is racist if it was intended to prevent black people specifically from voting. Everything I've seen/heard about the voter ID laws is it was designed to make one party more likely to get elected than the other (Republicans). Voter ID laws are exactly as racist as gerrymandering, in that it isn't. It's fucked up politics, and morally/ethically wrong, but it's not racist.

As for the rest of your contrived argument, you are clearly incapable of recognizing the fact that businesses don't give a shit about skin color. Businesses (especially large ones like banks) care about one thing, and one thing only: making money. Not giving out loans to people who lack collateral is a smart business decision, regardless of the skin color of the applicant. I have no idea what you're talking about with neighborhoods being "carved out" as if some guiding hand is controlling where black people live. Giving subprime home loans to people who are high risky was an evil, evil thing that banks did, but they did it to make money, not to screw over black people. Again with gentrification you're talking about poor people being displaced. The fact that the poor people happen to be black (or some other minority) is unlikely to be a motivating factor. It's about businesses coming in to make money. Are you seeing a fucking pattern yet?

[Azull]

Ok thanks, It would be the fact it is a direct financial block for some people. That makes more sense then some of the other reasons I have heard.

I don't think you understand what being poor means.

I am the eldest of 10 kids (no...we are not catholic). Most of my time growing up my mom worked in child care, usually out of our home, and my step dad was a pizza delivery guy who really liked marijuana.. I have an idea.

[Tricen]

A deck being stacked against poor people and a deck that is stacked against minorities are very, very similar decks.

[Correction]

You don't fight the fact that poor people are screwed over by trying to help out blacks (or any other specific minority) in particular. It's ignoring the root cause.

It's almost like I said 'improve the social safety net' or something already.

[Tricen]

Ok thanks, It would be the fact it is a direct financial block for some people. That makes more sense then some of the other reasons I have heard.



I am the eldest of 10 kids (no...we are not catholic). Most of my time growing up my mom worked in child care, usually out of our home, and my step dad was a pizza delivery guy who really liked marijuana.. I have an idea.

But you weren't able to see that 30$ is not viable for some people to spend on something that should be free? You were saying "oh it's only like 30 bucks, what's the big deal?" and then saying I know what it's like to be poor. Which is why I said, I don't think you understand what being poor means.

EDIT: I think I forgot a word. I don't think you understand what being THAT poor means. Sorry about that.

[notorious bum]

Sure is all white privilege up in here.

[ronin sparthos]

The difference is you think the deck is stacked against minorities, and I think the deck is stacked against poor people. The motive is important. The way you fight the deck depends on how/why the deck is stacked the way it is. You don't fight the fact that poor people are screwed over by trying to help out blacks (or any other specific minority) in particular. It's ignoring the root cause.

Because a deck stacked against the poor isn't a deck stacked against minorities? The motive has been clear with laws in the past and it's founded upon racist ideology and the idea that darkies belong in one shitty section of town that we're going to intentionally deprive of resources while whites get a better part of town that may/may not suck. And from that ideology blooms our ghettos, starved opportunities and eventually the incarceration of minorities. You can make the argument that money causes some whites to be disenfranchised as well and I'm there with you on that but the fact of the matter is that racism is still deeply ingrained in the American way of dealing with things. From who gets a job right down to the likelihood of being pulled over by the cops. Wealth and race coincide and guess who gets the lion's share of fail?

Capitalism is a horse race and when you're just finally getting to ride a fucking horse after much tribulations codified into law, it isn't surprising when minorities are behind by virtue of a stacked deck. But hey, we got Obama in the White House. QED motherfuckers, racism is over.

As for voter ID, I've already explained how it negatively affects the poor who also happen to be minorities. It puts up unnecessary roadblocks and plays into the idea that minorities must just be too lazy to be given voting privileges (like marble counting of old!) when the reality is that all of these rules are intentionally designed to disenfranchise and intimidate minorities from voting. If poor whites are caught up in the swell, acceptable losses says some.

As for the rest of your contrived argument, you are clearly incapable of recognizing the fact that businesses don't give a shit about skin color. Businesses (especially large ones like banks) care about one thing, and one thing only: making money. Not giving out loans to people who lack collateral is a smart business decision, regardless of the skin color of the applicant. I have no idea what you're talking about with neighborhoods being "carved out" as if some guiding hand is controlling where black people live. Giving subprime home loans to people who are high risky was an evil, evil thing that banks did, but they did it to make money, not to screw over black people. Again with gentrification you're talking about poor people being displaced. The fact that the poor people happen to be black (or some other minority) is unlikely to be a motivating factor. It's about businesses coming in to make money. Are you seeing a fucking pattern yet?

Businesses prey upon the poor, city planners intentionally herd minorities into shitty neighborhoods that are segregated to all shit (real estate agents do the same), darkies are known to lower property value, minorities have a more difficult time acquiring generational capital and keeping it (just ask those folk who lost their homes in '08), gentrification is perpetuated by a trickle-down effect paid in parcel by rich folk (mostly white) who believe that if they can push out the darkies then maybe we can keep a few around etc etc etc. Poorer whites are forced to displace their poorer minority peers and from there everything cascades. The entire system is corrupt and racist independent of the money situation. Even rich darkies are subject to the effects of American racism.

It's like you want to handwave an entire system designed around oppressing minority groups to blame capitalism when capitalism and codified white supremacist policies are to blame.

[tyven]

Voter ID laws drafted that most negatively affect blacks/hispanics who often lack drivers licenses/state ID due to income, location.
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Banks less likely to give out loans to blacks/hispanics due to lagging collateral, generational capital and fears the business will fail in comparison to white peers caused by racist government policy put into practice?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Shitty neighborhoods carved out for blacks/hispanics or white flight effect in conjunction with marked decreases in public services including safety and general divestment in community?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Even shittier subprime home loans floated to mostly blacks/hispanics alongside using churches as a means to spread this contagion which hit hard when the housing market went to shit setting black/hispanic homeowners back decades?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Public services that magically return to black/hispanic neighborhoods once the hooks of gentrification take effect and said blacks/hispanics are priced out?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

Rockefeller Drug Laws, Reagan-era war on drugs?
Probably not institutionalized racism.

i just gave you a running and jumping high 5 in my living room

[Blubbartron]

Businesses prey upon the poor, city planners intentionally herd minorities into shitty neighborhoods that are segregated to all shit (real estate agents do the same), darkies are known to lower property value, minorities have a more difficult time acquiring generational capital and keeping it (just ask those folk who lost their homes in '08), gentrification is perpetuated by a trickle-down effect paid in parcel by rich folk (mostly white) who believe that if they can push out the darkies then maybe we can keep a few around etc etc etc. Poorer whites are forced to displace their poorer minority peers and from there everything cascades. The entire system is corrupt and racist independent of the money situation. Even rich darkies are subject to the effects of American racism.

It's like you want to handwave an entire system designed around oppressing minority groups to blame capitalism when capitalism and codified white supremacist policies are to blame.

Prove it. I'll wait.

And don't bring me any bullshit about "the aftermath proves the intent." Show me anything that irrefutably demonstrates that policy makers in the past 30 years were trying to "stick it to the darkies" as opposed to trying to make as much money for themselves and their friends and giving literally zero fucks about everyone else.

Don't get me wrong though - I understand that racism is a real and terrible thing that we're still dealing with today. I understand that things that happened a century ago can still be felt today. However, I can't just sit around while people look at their shitty lot in life and don't critically analyze why things are the way they are. Unless you're absolutely sure that racism was the determining factor for choices that were made that negatively impacted you, saying things are bad because people with power don't like the color of your skin is a fucking cop out. It doesn't help fix problems unless that racism really is the problem, and you've in no way demonstrated that. Believing really hard that it's just racist assholes holding you down doesn't make it true.

[quannum]

Show me anything that irrefutably demonstrates that policy makers in the past 30 years were trying to "stick it to the darkies" as opposed to trying to make as much money for themselves and their friends and giving literally zero fucks about everyone else.

[Lucavi]

Prove it. I'll wait.

And don't bring me any bullshit about "the aftermath proves the intent." Show me anything that irrefutably demonstrates that policy makers in the past 30 years were trying to "stick it to the darkies" as opposed to trying to make as much money for themselves and their friends and giving literally zero fucks about everyone else.

Don't get me wrong though - I understand that racism is a real and terrible thing that we're still dealing with today. I understand that things that happened a century ago can still be felt today. However, I can't just sit around while people look at their shitty lot in life and don't critically analyze why things are the way they are. Unless you're absolutely sure that racism was the determining factor for choices that were made that negatively impacted you, saying things are bad because people with power don't like the color of your skin is a fucking cop out. It doesn't help fix problems unless that racism really is the problem, and you've in no way demonstrated that. Believing really hard that it's just racist assholes holding you down doesn't make it true.

Lol.

[Blubbartron]

He literally ends the video saying "race is on the back burner", or in other words, it's becoming less important. And that was 30 years ago. And again, much like the voter ID thing, this is about politicking, not about intending to hurt black people. He's talking about a strategy on how to win the votes of racists (because the south had/has a lot of them), not how to get a racist elected.

[quannum]

look at all that spaghetti falling out of your pockets, get a grip son.

[Blubbartron]

look at all that spaghetti falling out of your pockets, get a grip son.

Do you have anything better than some ridiculous ad hominem to combat a rational argument?

He even says in the middle of the video "the byproduct of [cutting taxes] is blacks get hurt worse than whites, and subconsciously maybe that is part of it, I'm not saying that." He's very clearly saying it's most likely not intended to hurt blacks, but if racists want to look at it that way, then it's win-win for them as a political party. Their economic policies net them more money, and the racist vote. That does not make the policies racist.

This is simple fucking English, is anyone having problems following? Never thought I'd see the day where I was defending Republicans, but jesus christ folks, NOT EVERYTHING IS RACISM.

[quannum]

your comments are more comical than mine. you've already lost the argument dude, take your L and move on.

[BaneTheBrawler]

The question you should be asking is why you need an ID at all. Honestly, the reason I have ID at all is because as soon as I turned of age, I needed it to avoid being held by cops cause I'm a minority and we know how much the legal system loves us. Previously, I just had school ID and thought that sufficient. Voter fraud is a very rare occurrence yet a national push was floated during and after a defeat in an election campaign? Further the colorful language thrown around by not so subtle politicians. The effort was entirely to disenfranchise minority voters under the paper thin auspices of 'protecting the integrity' of the election process.

Worse still, the attack on pre-voter registration, cutting down poll hours and shortening windows to register. All of it designed to harm the poor and downtrodden to slant an election a specific way. But hey, not institutionalized racism or anything.

just want to point out this is not quite correct. vote fraud is rampant, but it's usually conducted on a massive scale; "lost" ballots, gerrymandering, voter I.D. laws, etc. the type of voter fraud that would be "prevented" by voter I.D. laws is so rare as to be negligible.

[ronin sparthos]

@Blub

I like how you put in that irrefutably caveat as an escape hatch.

Recall that 'show me your papers' law in Arizona? Where you could be stopped for being Hispanic and forced to prove you were 'Murican? And the subsequent provisions that were deemed discriminatory and struck down by a judge?

Or the silliness of rock cocaine vs. powder cocaine sentences?

Or the overwhelming insular white makeup of the NYC Fire department? I guess by virtue of faeries the department was 91% white. A judge also struck down the exams as discriminatory against minority applicants.

Or the racist tendencies of one Robert Moses, architect of the modern New York highway system known for placing his pools and parks in white majority areas, unleashing his hostility towards the poor and minorities in his grand vision for New York City by cutting through neighborhoods and generally having great disdain towards mass transit.

You can continue to apologize for racist ideology finding its way into our laws and practices by saying it's all about the money and I'll continue to argue that both money and the systemic slant towards oppressing minorities are to blame. You can almost taste when it comes off the lips of our elected officials. They cry reverse racism, design commercials that rile up working class whites and inevitably apologize for their gaffes all while promising this country is one of meritocracy. This Google diversity data dump shows exactly how big the gulf is. How amusing.

We don't joke about darkies being criminals and hispanics being mango vendors without good reason and it's the manifestation of our bad acts.

As for critically analyzing? It's what I try to do and people far better at such things do when they drop the statistics and show that racism isn't just the brown people whining because they can't do capitalism right. It isn't a cop out, there are concrete facts and you can choose to acknowledge them and try to fix the imbalances or continue to make excuses. The New Jim Crow delves into just how disgustingly racist out justice system is and that's the branch of government that determines fairness. Or at least it likes to think of itself as doing so, until someone browns up on trial and gets a higher sentence cause.... brown people! Give me a break, Blub.

I'm not going to sit here and preach it's all the white mans fault or whatever strawman people attempt to employ when they're hit with the ugly truth but to ignore the systemic racism is to deny reality itself. I don't care how po' white trash you get in this country, you've still got a big advantage over your po' black trash.