White and male, Google releases diversity data

[Meresgi]

My point was saying stop with the circlejerk, "My poor immigrant so-and-so worked hard and looked where it got them." That was decades ago, the world has changed. When children and adults are mostly around poverty, drug dealing and making a quick dollar through illegal means it becomes a way of life. You tell them, you can go to school for x years, work your way up the corporate ladder and maybe make something of yourself vs. becoming a drug dealer, thief or professional athlete. Which do you think most people would pick when they don't have anyone to aspire to in a positive nature. Don't forget most people of color are distrustful of anyone in authority be it from personal experience or just knowing someone always running into cops, even if it's doing something illegal. I've been pulled over by the cops in my city twice now, in handcuffs and on the hood of a cop car because they ran the plates wrong and couldn't be bothered to even apologize afterwards.

I got to agree with Milkster on that. My whole family came from poverty, my mother and step father are still poor as shit, and have worked their asses off towards that "American Dream" while having to take out credit card debt and mortgages to make ends meet with 3 children at times. I got where I am now, and where I might be in a few weeks because I was fucking lucky as shit. Wife's parents let us move in with them while I went back to school, I got my job because I knew a lot of people at the college and had close ties, I might be getting promoted to a much higher job based off the same reasons.

Anyone who thinks that the whole conservative ideal of "work hard and you'll make it" is still a thing needs to wise up. People in low income areas don't want to hear that shit, they have seen it not work again and again and again. They have seen people who took the risk, went to college....and came home with 50k-80k in debt and now work for mother fucking Starbucks.

It's not just minorities though, but I do understand that a lot of low income areas are black/hispanic and there is racism in this country, but I will also say there are tons of areas of poor as fuck white people suffering the same just not with racism tacked on, but that doesn't mean anything. Look at upstate NY and how fucked a lot of the areas are. So it annoys me when people, who are arguing against racism will lump most white people into "white privilege" as if it means we're all better off in every way.

Pointing out that blacks in general are less intelligent then whites which has been proven over and over again is highly relevant to this thread.

Really? Since if you took an average of how many white kids vs how many black kids went to private schools/went on to college i'm sure it wouldn't show whites being a runaway margin.

[Correction]

Pointing out that blacks in general are less intelligent then whites which has been proven over and over again*

*by racists

[Meresgi]

*by racists

Racist....scientists!

[Correction]

Racist....scientists!

Hail Hydra

[Blubbartron]

Did any of you talking about racism in regards to the IQ thing actually watch the video? The questions in the exam were nonverbal pattern determination. Given a series of images, which of the following several images is the correct one to match the pattern displayed, etc. That type of pattern matching isn't even weakly dependent on education level. There's no required knowledge of anything - it's purely pattern matching, which our brain begins doing from the day we're born.

Is it really that hard to believe there are genetic differences, though? If you weren't aware, you can domesticate wild animals in about 6 or 7 generations through selective breeding. It was done with foxes in Russia. Now think about how long slavery was a thing in America - do you really think plantation owners weren't artificially selecting for strength, endurance, and low intelligence (to reduce the likelihood of runaways/increase dependence on the "master")? If you think that didn't have an effect, then you're just being naive. Obviously that doesn't explain Africans, but I don't know enough about the history of Africa to do anything more than speculate. Obviously the Apartheid was preventing blacks from pursuing more intellectual endeavors, but differences this foundational have to go back further. There are still tribes in Africa with no modern technology/infrastructure at all, and in those cultures it makes sense that strength/endurance/speed would be selected for (the best hunter provides more for his family, gets more pussy, has healthier/better fed kids, etc). I don't know how far the blacks of South Africa have been able to come from that type of culture, but maybe it simply hasn't been long enough for them to get a predilection for intelligence into their genetic makeup (it does take several generations of actively selecting for something, after all).

[BerenTebogo]

Pointing out that blacks in general are less intelligent then whites which has been proven over and over again is highly relevant to this thread.

He says while quoting a youtube video instead of published, peer-reviewed, and cited journal articles.

Edit: I didn't watch the video, because youtube isn't where I go for my science because, you know, I'm an actual scientist. Put up or shut up with peer-reviewed studies.

[notorious bum]

Bruh. No. Don't do it, bruh.

[BerenTebogo]

Bruh. No. Don't do it, bruh.

It's a weekend, we have time to watch them flail a bit, right?

[Blubbartron]

He says while quoting a youtube video instead of published, peer-reviewed, and cited journal articles.

Edit: I didn't watch the video, because youtube isn't where I go for my science because, you know, I'm an actual scientist. Put up or shut up with peer-reviewed studies.

I haven't had an opportunity to read all of it, but it looks like a meta-study of many studies, indicating effectively the same thing as the youtube video.

The new evidence reviewed here points to some genetic component in Black–White differences in mean IQ. From 2005.

[Mazmaz]

Did any of you talking about racism in regards to the IQ thing actually watch the video? The questions in the exam were nonverbal pattern determination. Given a series of images, which of the following several images is the correct one to match the pattern displayed, etc. That type of pattern matching isn't even weakly dependent on education level. There's no required knowledge of anything - it's purely pattern matching, which our brain begins doing from the day we're born.

Is it really that hard to believe there are genetic differences, though? If you weren't aware, you can domesticate wild animals in about 6 or 7 generations through selective breeding. It was done with foxes in Russia. Now think about how long slavery was a thing in America - do you really think plantation owners weren't artificially selecting for strength, endurance, and low intelligence (to reduce the likelihood of runaways/increase dependence on the "master")? If you think that didn't have an effect, then you're just being naive. Obviously that doesn't explain Africans, but I don't know enough about the history of Africa to do anything more than speculate. Obviously the Apartheid was preventing blacks from pursuing more intellectual endeavors, but differences this foundational have to go back further. There are still tribes in Africa with no modern technology/infrastructure at all, and in those cultures it makes sense that strength/endurance/speed would be selected for (the best hunter provides more for his family, gets more pussy, has healthier/better fed kids, etc). I don't know how far the blacks of South Africa have been able to come from that type of culture, but maybe it simply hasn't been long enough for them to get a predilection for intelligence into their genetic makeup (it does take several generations of actively selecting for something, after all).

Why am I not surprised you're the one saying this shit after seeing the same shit view for women.

I'll spell it out for you. Before we ever start examining "genetic differences" between people to determine whether some are inferior to others, we have to fix the cultural/sociological/economical issues that VASTLY affect those differences. The "discovered" genetic differences don't mean shit if you don't control for those other issues.

[Blubbartron]

Why am I not surprised you're the one saying this shit after seeing the same shit view for women.

I'll spell it out for you. Before we ever start examining "genetic differences" between people to determine whether some are inferior to others, we have to fix the cultural/sociological/economical issues that VASTLY affect those differences. The "discovered" genetic differences don't mean shit if you don't control for those other issues.

Here's someone who doesn't understand how science works, or can't be bothered to read and see that those other variables were controlled for. At least part of the IQ gap is caused by genetic differences - the only question is how much.

[Correction]

Did any of you talking about racism in regards to the IQ thing actually watch the video?

You'd only bring up the racial disparity in IQ testing in a thread about the achievement/employment gap if you wanted to ensure some voice was given to the idiotic notion that blacks are genetically predisposed to not getting hired.

[Meresgi]

Can we all just agree that around blacks, never relax?

[Blubbartron]

You'd only bring up the racial disparity in IQ testing in a thread about the achievement/employment gap if you wanted to ensure some voice was given to the idiotic notion that blacks are genetically predisposed to not getting hired.

Or it's an important component to consider when asking the question "why don't blacks have much of a presence in the tech industry?" It's important to remember that statistics are just statistics - they make no claims about you as an individual, but when there's a statistically significant gap in IQ for a particular group of people, you can't just ignore its existence.

I still feel that poverty is the first thing that needs working on to improve quality of life for everyone (especially minorities who make up the largest percentages of the poor), but this kind of information is important for setting expectations about what our future will look like even if we do eliminate poverty. An (on average) lower IQ doesn't mean that there are zero exceptionally intelligent black people (NDT obviously), but it will become the next most logical explanation if, having solved poverty, blacks still don't have their roughly proportionate share of representation in the tech industry/intellectual economy.

[Priran]

So besides the fact that people keep saying this is a problem of "too many white people" when white people are actually underrepresented, what I really don't understand is why people are having an issue with Google here. Is there any evidence that they're discriminating against black people, or are qualified black people just 2% of the people they interview? Either is a problem, but one of those would be Google's fault and the other is not.

[BerenTebogo]

I haven't had an opportunity to read all of it, but it looks like a meta-study of many studies, indicating effectively the same thing as the youtube video.

The new evidence reviewed here points to some genetic component in Black–White differences in mean IQ. From 2005.

I've skimmed it, giving certain sections a more thorough read than others, and the long and short of it is that none of this is even remotely conclusive. One of their main models uses a linear algebra technique meant to roughly identify 1 or 2 variables in extremely large data sets of many, many variables which is, in my opinion, ill-suited for the data analyzed and a clear indication of the outdated nature of both the data mining techniques and the studies cited (some much more than 20 years out of date, basically a generation).

Aside from outdated techniques that should make anyone with experience in data mining and collection cringe, it is, as you say, a meta study that fails to provide any empirical evidence for either of the models discussed.

It's an interesting read, and I'm not here to say there is absolutely zero genetic influence in the differences between a race of people who have spent the better part of the past 2,000 years in an evolving industrial civilization and a race of people who have only been exposed to it for about 500 years, but I am saying (and apparently so is your meta study by lack of conclusion) that it's not responsible for the sort of shit being thrown about in this thread (blax ain't gud at sciences).

Edit: And to clarify my above statement: There is ZERO empirical scientific evidence presented thusfar to support ANY claim of IQ differences being correlated in any, slight, tiny way to presence in science and tech fields. Absolutely none, if you disagree, you don't understand data or science.

[Correction]

Or it's an important component to consider when asking the question "why don't blacks have much of a presence in the tech industry?" It's important to remember that statistics are just statistics - they make no claims about you as an individual, but when there's a statistically significant gap in IQ for a particular group of people, you can't just ignore its existence.

A gap in IQ doesn't explain the disparity between the ratio of non-tech sector graduates and the demographics of the non-tech employees in the Google report. You can't just ignore the fact that you haven't read the content in the OP when you're trying to contribute to a discussion. But here you are. Still. For some reason.

[notorious bum]

This whole premise of encapsulating the tech industry and the highest measure of intelligence(testing) is fucking fascinating. I can't understand how you don't realize the very foundation of your argument is held together by popsickle sticks and Elmer's glue.

[Cantih]

what I really don't understand is why people are having an issue with Google here.

Nobody (sane at least) has an issue with Google on the matter. The only reason Google is even mentioned is because they very unusually, compared to most businesses, released their demographics.
There are other companies that discriminate, so that's why it may still be brought up in general with the conversation. But in regards to Google's core business, it is a dearth of candidates in those minorities.
(But the reasons for that lack certainly can be because of discriminatory pressures. And Google itself probably isn't exerting much of those pressures, infact, the article even says they're trying to structurally increase the number of candidates.)

[ronin sparthos]

Look at upstate NY and how fucked a lot of the areas are. So it annoys me when people, who are arguing against racism will lump most white people into "white privilege" as if it means we're all better off in every way.

Really? Since if you took an average of how many white kids vs how many black kids went to private schools/went on to college i'm sure it wouldn't show whites being a runaway margin.

I agree that one shouldn't discount the problems occurring in rural suburbia among poor whites especially among the rampant drug abuse explosion and the shrinking opportunities that come with poverty/decay/vanishing manufacturing sector but even the poorest white person has advantages over their poor black kin. Dress yourself up in a suit 'n tie and no one would even know you're poor (and white) whereas by virtue of some melanin you instantly have a mark against you regardless of financial status. Thus the term white privilege.

Looking at this shitstew of a thread and we already have two people peddling genetic inferiority among blacks. Scale this up across society and thus lies the problem. Things like 'on average', 'NDT is an exception' and 'science' used to cover up what is effectively white supremacist ideals and all the ugly thoughts that come with racism.

Motherfucking eugenics in my BG threads. Jesus fucking Christ. lol