Obama expected to promise student loan relief (Student Loan Debt discussion)

[kuronosan]

yes good sir

I squandered some additional loan debt on a few wasted college credits and rent. I was definitely a little above the average student rent in Manhattan. 50k wasn't very frugal for K-State, I'll admit. And still really only paid off because I stayed within the college of engineering for dat Bachelors.

Not surprised, KSU has a great engineering program.

The heck are you doing selling insurance (Rock Chalk)?

[Tyche]

I'm already trying to figure out the best way to save for my son's college expenses, and he's not even a month old yet. My parents paid for my undergrad tuition (like 16k for 4 years in the U. of Wisconsin system), and I worked 20 hrs/week through undergrad to pay rent/food. I plan on doing the same for my children.

(Grad school, however, he was like "that's on you" lol - he never did buy into this whole film thing)

Open 529, have family contribute alongside gifts for birthdays, Christmas, special occasions. Serves two purposes, less toys to deal with in your house, saves for college.

I finished undergrad with very little debt with no help from my parents (less than 10k). Grad school will be on my own as well.

[BerenTebogo]

Reading this all that I can think of, despite the massive piles of debt, is that "holy fuck I'm glad I didn't major in anything that could throw a rock to lib. arts"

I mean, I've got about $50k worth of debt all told, but I really don't care. I know I'm going to be employable no matter what.

Though, from my own experience as being in my mid / late twenties while doing an undergraduate degree I will definitely say that unless my kids want to go into a STEM degree they better pray they get scholarships. I won't be paying for them to do some off-the-cuff major because 18 year old them thinks it's a good idea. Would rather them spend a few years in the real world like I did to get a better appreciation for just how nice it is to only have to worry about studying and doing your homework, not how to provide for your family while balancing your debt from a shitty degree.

Nothing like living paycheck to paycheck to make you want to put your nose in a book.

[archibaldcrane]

Art/Communications majors here get at me

[BerenTebogo]

Art/Communications majors here get at me

Which is A+ and great for you that you have worked hard enough to make it succeed. You're not gonna sit here and tell me that you don't recognize that you're the tail of a bell curve though, right? Not worth the money / loss of 4 years of prime time for a dice roll. If it's something the kids like and work hard at and they get scholarships / awards based on that, then sure. Not just gonna hold my hand out and say glhf try to make it in a saturated market with a degree that doesn't prepare you for nearly anything else.

[Grey Jorildyn]

And that is one of the issues ain't it? World moves farther and farther away from humanities and wonder every day. Art needs to make come back in a big way, some way, somehow. It is one of those things I think humanity "needs". It's part of what makes us intelligent beings and represents a beauty we all can understand in some way.

It sucks to not be able to follow your dream if that's what it is for someone. Art, music, we need these things in our lives.

[kuronosan]

And that is one of the issues ain't it? World moves farther and farther away from humanities and wonder every day. Art needs to make come back in a big way, some way, somehow. It is one of those things I think humanity "needs". It's part of what makes us intelligent beings and represents a beauty we all can understand in some way.

It sucks to not be able to follow your dream if that's what it is for someone. Art, music, we need these things in our lives.

I actually agree with this. Culture is invaluable, and losing this in favor of sciences is silly as shit.

[Cantih]

The trouble is one of.... well, I'm not exactly sure what to call it.

The way things are now, you do something, you get paid for it, hopefully enough to live off of.
A problem is whether or not what you do is, or is considered, valuable.

For things on the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy (food, housing, water, sanitation, medical, etc.) it's very easy to justify it's value. So they'll always have a certain reliability.
But when people are concerned over value (like in recessions), things that are harder to justify take a dive, either in whole or in part.
Nevermind if the desire for those things remains the same, if people are unwilling to support them (or as a consequence of themselves being devalued, unable), it will fall to the wayside.

We've got the food to feed people, we've got the room to house them, we've got things for them to do, necessary or otherwise.
But it doesn't happen, because everyone who can decide to OK the word go, is more concerned with a bunch of fucking numbers instead of actual people.

(Yes, I'm simplifying some things, no it's not because I'm unaware of the complexity, I'm just trying to avoid writing another damned treatise.)

[Aksannyi]

Nothing like living paycheck to paycheck to make you want to put your nose in a book.

God, this is the fucking truth though.

I personally would love to get an Art Education degree but I know damn well that's not employable. At least with an English Education degree I've got a fighting chance. My boyfriend told me to go into Science Education but I want to enjoy teaching, and science, while often fascinating, is not something I'm passionate enough about to teach, and from the education courses I've already taken, that's something that the students will pick up on and they'll be less likely to want to learn it.

I do have a lot of art credits from my first stint in college, when I was working on an Interior Design degree, I was about 2/3 of the way through before I dropped out for several reasons. So with my BS in Secondary English Ed, I can easily get certified to teach art with the credits I already have (after the fact) and if I find myself in a position to teach art I will take it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, by the time BGers' kids start to graduate from high school, I expect the job market to be even worse in terms of competition and marketable skills. More and more companies are realizing the value in automated labor (been on the receiving end of one of those layoffs) but yet the population is growing. It's not sustainable.

[Headspace]

My school's doctoral program is $556/hr and 79 hours for the program I'll be going into. So less than 50k for a doctorate. Probably around 50k after clinical insurance and shit though.

But, and this is a huge but...

You essentially cannot work for the three years you're in the program.

Hoping my fiancées family's education trust pays for her doctorate. Since I'll be dedicating 100% of my net to paying down my loans in our first 2-3 years post graduation.

[BerenTebogo]

And that is one of the issues ain't it? World moves farther and farther away from humanities and wonder every day. Art needs to make come back in a big way, some way, somehow. It is one of those things I think humanity "needs". It's part of what makes us intelligent beings and represents a beauty we all can understand in some way.

It sucks to not be able to follow your dream if that's what it is for someone. Art, music, we need these things in our lives.

I think all well-meaning and rational people can agree that art is wonderful and necessary. I also think all well-meaning people can discern the difference between majoring in something because you don't know what else to do and doing something because you love it.

Personally, I love the symphony, absolutely love it. I get out as often as I can. Still wouldn't pay a penny for my kid to major in music in college if they haven't been playing an instrument for at least a few years. And if it's something they really want to do, it'll be there responsibility to look for scholarships to programs and work hard to get them.

Don't take what I'm saying as a "down with the arts!" take it as a "down with falling back on the arts as safety net because you don't know what you want to do with your life!"

Edit: Also, I would, if this were the place for it, argue against the world moving farther and farther away from arts and humanities towards science. When 25% of American adults think the Sun goes around the Earth and adults who support evolution and climate change are in the vast majority...yeah.

Personally, I'll take a handful fewer indie art and photo galleries for a bit more science education. But as a great philosopher once said:

Spoiler: show

http://img.pandawhale.com/99072-porq...-gif-QZFX.jpeg

[wipers]

Art degree is great for those of you looking for work at Starbucks. You can discuss Manet while sipping a mocha. I'm sure the customers will appreciate your exquisite taste and refinement.

[kuronosan]

There's nothing wrong with a degree in the arts. It all depends on what you plan to do with it. If your long-term plan is to get a degree in music and then be the next Miley Cyrus, you're getting a music degree for the wrong reasons. But if you want to get a music degree so that you can play in a Philharmonic Orchestra? Nothing wrong with that in the slightest, provided you're smart and have a plan.

Most of the people with arts degrees thought that by getting a degree in Nude Painting would mean Nude Painting jobs would pop out of the woodwork. It doesn't happen like that, and colleges know this.

[Penthesilea]

My school's doctoral program is $556/hr and 79 hours for the program I'll be going into. So less than 50k for a doctorate. Probably around 50k after clinical insurance and shit though.

But, and this is a huge but...

You essentially cannot work for the three years you're in the program.

Aren't most PhD programs paid for by the institution? Maybe just STEM PhDs, but I figured most are selective enough to waive tuition and provide a stipend, provided you teach or do research.

[BaneTheBrawler]

lol no

[Penthesilea]

Well, from every single PhD (engineering/biotech/biology) in my general field, their tuition was waived and received a stipend.

[kuronosan]

lol no

Um, most PhD programs that are worth a damn actually do provide a stipend - especially if it's at a research facility. It's one of the main reasons advisors at many universities advise against getting only a master's if you're planning on a PhD.

This isn't EVERY PhD, but Pen isn't wrong.

[Xajii]

even most liberal arts PhDs are paid with stipend, it's more the norm than the exception.

that figure on the first page here claiming 1100/week is median for someone with a bachelor's degree seems like total horseshit to me, or some seriously messed up data. ~53k if that's before tax data and a much higher on-paper salary if that's claiming to be after taxes. i make around that on paper but lol @ actually taking home anything near that, and i make near the most of any of my friends in my own graduating class.

[BerenTebogo]

I've never seen a PhD program in a STEM field that doesn't provide a stipend + tuition waiver.

[archibaldcrane]

Open 529, have family contribute alongside gifts for birthdays, Christmas, special occasions. Serves two purposes, less toys to deal with in your house, saves for college.

The California 529 has no real benefits tax-wise unfortunately, maybe i'll open a side account through Vanguard (where I have my retirement) for the purpose of college. Having family contribute periodically isn't a terrible plan, I dunno. Kinda weird to be like "hey fuck my sister's kid, hook my boy up with some college savings!"

Maybe I'll do a UGMA account instead, so if they aren't college-bound maybe it could be a house down-payment without penalty? Shit I dunno.