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  1. #41
    Smells like Onions
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    Nope, we're saying the same things, I just haven't had time to wake up yet this morning. I edited out all the unnecessary text accordingly.

  2. #42
    I think FFXI should be Free-2-Play
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    Quote Originally Posted by Podginator View Post
    Has any tested Leaden yet? How does it stack against Wildfire?

    I broke 20k leaden salute with darksday bonus on mandy outside of Adoulin. Math wise it's much better than wildfire with higher AGI mod, unless your target resists dark damage.

  3. #43
    Ridill
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    Whelp seeing as probably trueflight had the same formula before it might be nice again... clearly this must be SEs answer to fixing gast/xbows lol

  4. #44
    Campaign
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viar View Post
    I broke 20k leaden salute with darksday bonus on mandy outside of Adoulin. Math wise it's much better than wildfire with higher AGI mod, unless your target resists dark damage.
    It doesn't have the built-in -enmity thing that Wildfire has though, or does it?

  5. #45
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    It doesn't have the built-in -enmity thing that Wildfire has though, or does it?
    No but wildfires isn't exactly big at lower tps. Specifically only -10 at 100tp. However all magical ws have reduced enmity since only the base dmg times ftp is used in the enmity calculation. Though given how much ftp and stat mods has gone up gunna say they will be dealing closer to full enmity now

  6. #46
    Chram
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    Well, since we've been given all the WSC mods, that makes calculating fTP -much- easier. Also, since 1-handed weapons now cap cRatio at 2.25, they become easier to determine as well. It'll still be about a half hour per weaponskill, though.

    Test procedure:

    Go to a starting area as thf or /thf for Sneak Attack.

    Try to ensure capped fStr for simplicity.

    Determine WSC based on various gear stats. Do not change gear at all, and do not use any fTP-modifying gear (eg: gorgets).

    Since almost all weaponskills had their 2000 TP value modified, working on testing that value rather than 1000 TP. Check the official post to see which ones may need the 1000 TP value tested as well.

    SA+WS mobs (should kill with the first hit). 10 mobs is enough to give you a rough value, and 20 is probably sufficient in most cases, but may need up to 30 in some situations. The higher your total base damage (weapon + WSC), the more attempts will be needed.

    Post the list of weaponskill damages, sorted by damage value (ie: 20, 22, 25, 28, 30, etc). If you're familiar enough with the math, pinpoint the 3.0 pDif value and back-calculate the fTP value relative to the base damage value.


    In addition, it might be nice to collect TP values for various weapon delays so we can get the new formula for that.

    Sechs can collect final results in the OP, or I can create a post to store summary info in.

  7. #47

    I second the TP values for weapon delays. I can't check any cause I am at work!

  8. #48
    Chram
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    Just a note that I'll start on H2H weaponskills.

  9. #49
    Ridill
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    One good thing about the new tp display in x/3000 only have to do 1 hit to find to per hit lol.

    Also should add for ranged a single ws should be enough just be aware of true shot. Magical of course are there own weird thing but still should only take 1 unless it's really weird like trueflights old ftps

  10. #50
    Sea Torques
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    Ungeared and unbuffed leaden and wf both did a little over 3k dmg on the lv 109 raptors in morimar with vanir knife mainhand and the skirmish 3 gun. Had I brought more than my melee set I'm sure the numbers would have been amazing.

  11. #51
    Relic Horn
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    Resolution at 2000 TP has a roughly 1.5 fTP per hit, and Resolution at 3000 TP has a roughly 2.27 fTP per hit, which means that 3000 TP Resolution has about 13 fTP. I only did 1 trial for each because I just wanted a general idea, so each could be +-5%.

  12. #52

    Can anyone let me know what the new required TP total for 492 delay lances to achieve 20 per hit will be? Also any idea if there's anything like FFXI Calc now that its math will be out of whack?

  13. #53
    Melee Summoner
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    Yoichinoyumi + Adlivun Arrow: 614 delay, 153 TP

    Armageddon + Adaman Bullet: 822 delay, 167 TP

    Hurlbat: 288 delay, 87 TP

    Aphotic Kukri: 200 delay, 65 TP

    No gear other than weapon equiped. Also checked Store TP just to be sure, it still works the same way it did before the update, aTP = bTP*(1+STP) where bTP is the new base TP.

  14. #54
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glecent View Post
    Yoichinoyumi + Adlivun Arrow: 614 delay, 153 TP

    Armageddon + Adaman Bullet: 822 delay, 167 TP

    Hurlbat: 288 delay, 87 TP

    Aphotic Kukri: 200 delay, 65 TP
    Interesting changes... previously it would have been 15.1, 16.6, 7.6, and 5.1 respectively. So in terms of increases that would be 1.3%, .6%, 14.4% and 27.4%... So ranged basically didn't change but low delay did tons. Now I'm really curious about sub 180 delay

  15. #55
    Melee Summoner
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    I did a little testing on ranged magic ws. The ilvl bonus is from the ranged weapon not from mainhand.

  16. #56
    E. Body
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    Just tested Treuflight. Using the same set as I used on Wildfire on RNG, i was getting 3800ish

    not impressed, unless i need a different setup?

  17. #57
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    Double checked Jishnu's Radiance and Namas Arrow. No changes to fTP. Didn't expect any, just wanted to make sure.

  18. #58
    Chram
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    Data -- Will put a summary in following post.


    Str: 93+115 = 208
    Dex: 106+76 = 182
    Vit: 89+77 = 166

    H2H Skill: 440
    Weapon: Verethragna 90 (d35)
    Base H2H damage: 83
    fStr: 12


    Footwork delay == 480, 134 TP per hit.
    Store TP: 15 (Rajas, Otronif hands, Asperity neck)
    TP per Footwork kick: 154
    TP after 13 hits: 2002

    Tornado Kick
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
    Currently 2.25 at 1000 TP
    Errata notes indicate that Tornado and Dragon Kick aren't getting modified by Footwork, so using standard formula.

    WSC : STR: 40%, VIT: 40% == 149
    Total base: 149 + 83 + 12 = 244

    Damage @2000:
    3126
    3127
    3131
    3211
    3214
    3240

    Range: 3087-3126 @3.0 >> 1029-1042 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 4.217 and 4.270. Settling on 4.25 fTP at 2000 TP.

    Damage @3000 TP:
    5596
    5741

    5469-5596 >> 1823-1865
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 7.471 and 7.643. Settling on 7.5 fTP at 2000 TP.


    Also, realizing we don't really need 20-30 samples anymore. If we assume a round number result, it's pretty easy to pinpoint with just a few samples.


    Ascetic's Fury
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 1000 TP, increased attack power
    Since we know TP affects crit rate, going to assume "attack power" means fTP, and test for that at 100 TP. Not testing for crit rates right now.
    Since fTP doesn't vary with TP, not going to refactor TP per hit.

    WSC: STR: 50%, VIT: 50% == 187
    Total base: 187 + 83 + 12 = 282

    Damage:
    873
    880
    883

    Given that a 1.0 fTP would give a damage range between 846 and 888, it's clear that fTP hasn't changed. As such, have to assume that "attack power" means exactly what it says: boost to effective attack for the weaponskill.

    Since the previous boost was a 2.0 attack modifier, I guess it can be somewhere between 2.25 and 3.0 now. Not going to try to test that.



    Howling Fist
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
    Currently 2.5 at 1000 TP

    WSC : STR: 20%, DEX: 50% == 132
    Total base: 132 + 83 + 12 = 227

    Damage @2000:
    3275
    3309
    3310
    3358
    3387
    3390

    3231-3273 @3.0 >> 1077-1091 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 4.744 and 4.806. Settling on 4.75 fTP at 2000 TP.

    Damage @3000 TP:
    5429
    5533
    5662

    5394-5427 @3.0 >> 1798-1809 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 7.921 and 7.969.
    Note: It's possible for damage values to fall below 3.0, though rare. Given how close it is, going to assume this is one such case.
    Settling on fTP of 8.0 for 3000 TP.


    Dragon Kick
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
    Currently 2.0 at 1000 TP
    Errata notes indicate that Tornado and Dragon Kick aren't getting modified by Footwork, so using standard formula.

    WSC : STR: 50%, DEX: 50% == 195
    Total base: 195 + 83 + 12 = 290

    Damage @2000:
    3096
    3109 (below 3.0)
    3135
    3145
    3255
    3264


    Range: 3111-3135 @3.0 >> 1037-1045 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 3.575 and 3.603.
    3.6 fTP at 2000 TP

    Damage @3000 TP:
    5722
    5756
    5857
    5878

    5601-5721 >> 1867-1907
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 6.438 and 6.575.
    6.5 fTP at 3000 TP



    Rudra's Storm
    Spoiler: show

    fTP @1000: 3.25

    Str 187
    Dex 114+90 = 204
    Agi 199

    D3 Daggers
    SA Dex bonus: 204

    WSC: 80% Dex == 163
    Base damage = 163 + 3 + 8 = 174


    Damage @2050-2070:
    (factor out crit attack bonus of 14%)
    4416 > 3874
    4545 > 3987
    4582 > 4020
    4587 > 4024
    4644 > 4074
    4698 > 4122
    4720 > 4141


    3.0 range: 3945-3987 >> 1315-1329 @1.0
    Subtract SA Dex of 204 from that: 1111-1125
    fTP between 6.385 and 6.465 >> 6.4

    Due to TP overage, might be 6.25 instead.


    Damage @3000:
    (factor out crit attack bonus of 14%)
    5778 > 5069
    5787 > 5077
    5794 > 5083
    5832 > 5116
    5874 > 5153
    5904 > 5179
    5909 > 5184
    5986 > 5251
    5988 > 5253
    5991 > 5256

    3.0 range: 5007-5067 >> 1669-1689 @1.0
    Subtract SA Dex of 204 from that: 1465-1485
    fTP between 8.420 and 8.534 >> 8.5


    Raging Fists
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
    Currently 1.0 at 1000 TP

    WSC : STR: 30%, DEX: 30% == 117 (116 if they don't add before truncating)
    Total base: 116 + 83 + 12 = 211

    Damage @2000:
    2914
    3047

    Range: 2904-2913 @3.0 >> 968-971 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 4.588 and 4.601.
    4.6 fTP at 2000 TP

    Damage @3000 TP:
    5741
    5896
    5916
    5923
    5949


    5667-5739 >> 1889-1913
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 8.953 and 9.066.
    9.0 fTP at 3000 TP



    Combo
    Spoiler: show

    TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
    Currently 1.0 at 1000 TP

    WSC : STR: 30%, DEX: 30% == 117 (116 if they don't add before truncating)
    Total base: 116 + 83 + 12 = 211

    Damage @2000:
    2413
    2426
    2482
    2483


    Range: 2367-2412 @3.0 >> 789-804 @1.0
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 3.739 and 3.810.
    3.75 fTP at 2000 TP

    Damage @3000 TP:
    3562
    3653


    3480-3561 >> 1160-1187
    Factoring out base damage, fTP between 5.498 and 5.625.
    5.5 fTP at 3000 TP

  19. #59
    Chram
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    Summary fTP values:

    Ascetic's Fury - fTP didn't change.
    Combo: 1.0 > 3.75 > 5.5
    Raging Fists: 1.0 > 4.6 > 9.0
    Howling Fist: 2.5 > 4.75 > 8.0
    Dragon Kick: 2.0 > 3.6 > 6.5
    Tornado Kick: 2.25 > 4.25 > 7.5

    Shark Bite: 2.0 > 4.0 > 5.75
    Mandalic Stab: 2.5 > 4.75 > 7.0
    Rudra's Storm: 3.25 > 6.25 > 8.5

    Stardiver: 0.75 > 1.25 > 1.75
    Drakesbane: 1.0
    Sonic Thrust: 3.0 > 3.7 > 4.5
    Camlann's Torment: 2.9 (should be 3.0?)

    Catastrophe: 2.75
    Quietus: 3.0
    Cross Reaper: 2.0 > 4.0 > 7.0
    Insurgency: 0.5 > 3.25 > 6.0
    Entropy: 0.75 > 1.25 > 2.0
    Spiral Hell: 1.375 > 2.75 > 4.75

    Judgment: 2.0 > 4.0 > 6.0
    Black Halo: 1.5 > 3.0 > 7.0
    Mystic Boon: 1.0 > 2.0 > 3.0

    Steel Cyclone: 1.5 > 2.5 > 4.0
    King's Justice: 1.0 > 3.0 > 5.0
    Upheaval: 1.0 > 3.5 > 6.5

    Tachi: Yukikaze: 1.5625 > 2.6875 > 4.125 (?)
    Tachi: Gekko: 1.5625 > 2.6875 > 4.125
    Tachi: Kasha: 1.5625 > 2.6875 > 4.125
    Tachi: Fudo: 3.75 > 5.75 > 8.0

    Shining Strike: 1.625 > 3.0 > 4.625
    Seraph Strike: 2.125 > 3.625 > 6.125

    Spirits Within: 32/256 > 128/256 > 256/256

    Torcleaver: 4.75 > 7.5 > 9.6875 (10.0?)
    Dimidiation: 2.25 > 4.5 > 6.75

    Empyreal Arrow: 1.5 > 2.5 > 5
    Refulgent Arrow: 3 > 4.25 > 7
    Trueflight: 3.5+100/256 > 6+126/256 > 9+172/256

    Last Stand: 2 / 3 / 4
    Detonator: 1.5 / 2.5 / 5
    Leaden Salute: 4.0 > 6.7 > 10.0

    Primal Rend: 3.0625 > 5.8359375 > 7.5625
    Cloudsplitter: 3.75 > 6.69921875 > 8.5

  20. #60
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snprphnx View Post
    Just tested Treuflight. Using the same set as I used on Wildfire on RNG, i was getting 3800ish

    not impressed, unless i need a different setup?
    Hard to say without having redone the new formula and without know approximate agi-int but I'd guess at least at higher tps agi would be slightly better for TF than it is in WF so might change some mab pieces to agi maybe. Also depending on how high they ramped up the ftp elemental belt might not be the best

    Quote Originally Posted by Motenten View Post
    Ascetic's Fury - fTP didn't change.
    Wonder what it's crit rates are now though... maybe pre-nerf VS amounts!?!

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