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  1. #21
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    Added some new stuff about storyline, Ramuh, and Shiva. Next up is some Crystal Tower info.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I'm not sure why you believe that this is an artifact of 1.0 design. Yoshi's only reason against it so far has been stat allocation, which is ridiculously easy to resolve (allocation per job instead of per class).

    TBH, stat allocation itself is almost entirely useless anyway; much like the railed system of cross-class abilities, there is very little actual choice in your stat allocation. PLD and WAR get to choose between VIT and STR, and BLM can play around with PIE to hit specific MP totals for 6 (?) Fires. Everyone else dumps 30 points into their main stat.
    I agree 100% on your latter point, and I believe it was an artifact of 1.0 design because that's when it was incorporated, yes? Surely it wasn't in XI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    It is funny that you praise him for ignoring Ninja tanks in the same post where you talk about DRK using a scythe. Gee, I wonder what game that's from?
    I included scythe for Dark Knight because it actually happened, not because its what I want to happen. Is there something wrong with including facts in statements? Fact is, Drks used both in XI. Fact is, Ninja aren't tanks in this game.

    What I want to happen is a statistical impossibility: a return to the 2-handed greatsword PLUS a shield, ala. Dark Knight Cecil. Seeing the actual buckler on his arm in the 3DS remake of IV was adorable. Same with Kain actually rocking a shield.

    Also, I praise him for a lot of things. Ninjas returning to being killing machines instead of tanks is but one of them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    I agree 100% on your latter point, and I believe it was an artifact of 1.0 design because that's when it was incorporated, yes?
    In 1.0, it was incorporated as part of the physical level system (separate from class rank). The physical level system was abolished. The current incarnation of stat allocation is Yoshi's design.

    I included scythe for Dark Knight because it actually happened, not because its what I want to happen.
    Well, we certainly wouldn't want a stifling of conceptual ideas in order to play it "safe" and retread on the previous MMO in this game, right? So I'm not sure why you would think scythe on DRK should be any sort of priority.

    What I want to happen is a statistical impossibility: a return to the 2-handed greatsword PLUS a shield, ala. Dark Knight Cecil.
    I don't know what game you're talking about, but it isn't FFIV. Every sword in that game is equipped in one hand.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    In 1.0, it was incorporated as part of the physical level system (separate from class rank). The physical level system was abolished. The current incarnation of stat allocation is Yoshi's design.
    He deserves a bonk on the head for that idea, but at least he's coming around with the sense to realize that perhaps it was a short-sighted at best and a mistake at worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Well, we certainly wouldn't want a stifling of conceptual ideas in order to play it "safe" and retread on the previous MMO in this game, right? So I'm not sure why you would think scythe on DRK should be any sort of priority.
    When did I ever say scythe on Drk was or should be any sort of priority? There you go, putting words in my mouth again. I said that I included scythe into that post because its a thing that actually happened. In no area did I ever say or imply that it was or should be a priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I don't know what game you're talking about, but it isn't FFIV. Every sword in that game is equipped in one hand.
    Two things:

    1) Not every sword is 1-handed. Avenger required 2-hands to use, but offered a massive (for the time) increase in attack power. Its also one of the only swords that Kain can equip. Stop always trying to be right. Its okay to be incorrect once or twice!
    2) In the graphics for the 3DS version, Cecil wields his sword with 2 hands as a Dark Knight.

  5. #25
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    Added the (not particularly interesting) CT info. Next part is about Frontline.

  6. #26
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    Thanks for the updates, Slycer. That should have been my first post in the thread.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Are there several sets like before, for each role?

    Yeah, there will be a substantial amount if you intend to collect them all.
    i want them to put in the AF2 concept art pieces that they've been teasing for awhile, but having 45 different pieces in CT2 is going to suck really bad. 30 pieces in CT1 already took forever to farm.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    1) Not every sword is 1-handed. Avenger required 2-hands to use, but offered a massive (for the time) increase in attack power. Its also one of the only swords that Kain can equip.
    So then, there is a clear delineation between "swords that require two hands" and "swords that can be used with a shield." Glad you cleared that up.

    2) In the graphics for the 3DS version, Cecil wields his sword with 2 hands as a Dark Knight.
    And what do the graphics show when Kain equips cloth armor?

    The graphics are not relevant.

  9. #29
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    Frontline stuff is up, next up is game balance and job adjustments.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by layoneil View Post
    i want them to put in the AF2 concept art pieces that they've been teasing for awhile, but having 45 different pieces in CT2 is going to suck really bad. 30 pieces in CT1 already took forever to farm.
    Each role means we won't be getting AF2. Most likely similar to CT1 we'll get 1 set for tanks, 1 for healers, 1 for caster and then DRG,MNK and BRD sets.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkar View Post
    Each role means we won't be getting AF2. Most likely similar to CT1 we'll get 1 set for tanks, 1 for healers, 1 for caster and then DRG,MNK and BRD sets.
    I believe they already mentioned that AF2 is coming in 2.4 or later.

  12. #32
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

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    I missed most of the earlier argument, but yes the current job/class system has been Yoshi-P's idea since 1.23. If you look back, he was actually forced into creating such a system back then, because he had to do whatever he could to keep interest into FFXIV long enough to push FFXIV: ARR out of the door before the game died out completely (If you didn't know, Yoshi-P had to make over 400 executive decisions regarding ARR, this being 2-3 of them). Hence, his main objective was to reach into the nostalgia pockets of his subscribers by converting Tanaka's terrible system into a more relate-able job system of past lore, complete with Artifact armor.

    You have to feel for Yoshi-P; his plan for the 2.0 job system was probably semi rushed, and wasn't fine tuned up until a few months before release despite pushing a stopgap in 1.23 as well -- of course he had to keep up this new system that [legacy] players were now "used to", while catering to new players with the addition of Summoner & Scholar. We now reach this point a year later; it probably didn't take more than 2-3 months to figure out the current job system's limitations, but they continued to roll with it because other additions to the base 2.0 game required more priority.

    In a perfect scenario, there would be no "classes" at all, because essentially they are useless to the overall metagame. However, Yoshi-P played his cards very well with all things considered 1-2 years ago. So now we see talk of him looking to completely abolish the rigidness of the current class system or completely circumventing the system entirely with the addition of new jobs (aka. They currently have no clue how to go about this, and are biding for time to concoct a solution).

  13. #33
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    He wasn't really "forced" into anything. Among other solutions, he could have simply had the classes upgrade into jobs (permanently) a la FF1.

    The fact that classes are nearly useless to the metagame is, again, Yoshi's choice. With the lone exception of SCH, classes are already the-same-but-better for any content under LV30 (which would be very relevant if relic weapons weren't locked to jobs only). Two changes would increase class viability greatly, and provide some sorely missed opportunity for player creativity and customization:

    1) Classes can use all cross-class abilities. If a THM can equip Mercy Stroke and do pitiful damage at melee range only, why can't they equip Feint or Straight Shot?
    2) GLA/MRD/PGL/LNC/ARC and CNJ/THM/ACN can all equip the same gear (within those two groups).

  14. #34
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    make classes subjobs.

    classes actually matter now. job system's actually interesting now. you actually have to make choices depending on the encounter now.

    done.

    but i guess this is really a topic for another thread.

  15. #35

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    You have to feel for Yoshi-P; his plan for the 2.0 job system was probably semi rushed, and wasn't fine tuned up until a few months before release despite pushing a stopgap in 1.23 as well -- of course he had to keep up this new system that [legacy] players were now "used to", while catering to new players with the addition of Summoner & Scholar.
    This is such a load of bullshit.

    The game was completely overhauled with 2.0, 1.0 and 2.0 are completely separate games that share little more than art assets, Yoshi could have done whatever the fuck he wanted with the class/job system at that point.

    They kept classes because of legacy players? Please.

  16. #36
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    I'd say the game class/battle system was more completely overhauled in 1.18-1.21 (elimination of stamina, guard system, AOE toggle, battle regimen, and action points; addition of auto-attack, combos, and job system). The 1.21+ class/job/battle system has more in common with 2.0 than 1.17.

  17. #37

    Classes have been completely irrelevant from the moment jobs were introduced in 1.0 (except THM).

    With the move to 2.0 they had all the freedom in the world to either A) make classes relevant or B) scrap them at level 30 (if not sooner) and just have them be an introductory thing.

    They chose C) keep them irrelevant while also hampering their own ability to design new jobs around existing classes.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisada View Post
    make classes subjobs.

    classes actually matter now. job system's actually interesting now. you actually have to make choices depending on the encounter now.
    How would this even work? Are you talking about removing cross-class abilities and replacing them with all <=LV25 abilities/traits from one equipped class?

  19. #39
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    Added the job/balance adjustments topics, got a couple topics left (returning player campaigns and the future of Zodiac weapons).

  20. #40
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    mostly yes but whatever cutoff level there would be should have to do with game balance than any number related to ffxi's subjob level system.


    but let's say the cutoff is 30. and let's say we're not talking about global attacks, just off-GCD stuff. a war could sub GLD and get rampart, fight or flight, flash, conva, and provoke - all skills that would seem mandatory if you were a MT.

    at least that's how i'd envision it.

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