+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 94 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 54 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 1862

Thread: Israel vs. Gaza round 99     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #61
    blax n gunz
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    11,161
    BG Level
    9

    Quote Originally Posted by Gokku View Post
    Question, why doesnt Israel just fuckin BUY the land from them? im sure enough money could be thrown at a country for them to agree to it, could they afford it? the notion of peace should boost the economy if it held.... the Palestinians that stayed could either be paid money to leave or stay and become israeli etc.

    So lets say , they pay out 6G's to 2.5million people spending 15bil pre land price and pay a trillion for the land, and just ended the war with money.
    It's 7 million refugees, and I don't think $6k is very much.

    The constant state of violence between the two people has created a big opportunity for extremists on both sides. These extremists draw much of their power and influence from the status quo of dehumanizing and wishing death upon "the other" so ultimately a deal where refugees are compensated for their land somehow would require Knesset extremists (and Bibi) to abandon settlement expansion they aren't willing to pay for, and require authorities in both Gaza and the West Bank to accept the cash deal on behalf of their constituents. I don't see extremists giving up their power base like that. Not without some kind of miracle.

  2. #62
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    30,595
    BG Level
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    I think the word you are looking for is faulty.
    http://i.word.com/idictionary/faulted

  3. #63
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    I am placing more responsibility on the occupying force in an asymmetrical conflict. You want to pretend responsibility can be split evenly because it requires less effort on your end. I can agree to pretending that responsibility can be split evenly for the purposes of not antagonizing israel in a negotiating table but the truth is, Israel has more responsibility as a fully functioning democratic state that is currently occupying the land.
    I was just responding to your "root cause" arguments, which I don't go anywhere helpful (in fact I think they are quite harmful for finding a peaceful solution). Also, I would like to point out, given the right political climate, Israeli's do support a peace process. The problem is that political climate doesn't exist because it seems like to the Israeli voting public that every time they put out their hand, they get smacked. The problem is that by having a fully functioning democratic state, the perception of the situation is more important than the reality. You have to deal with the realities of that situation and can't just blame Israel and then walk away. Israel has removed settlements in the past and it didn't do anything (maybe even made the situation worse).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    We agree that bibi sucks.

    Your last question is of course rhetorical. You presuppose that there is less conflict in the west bank because the palestinian organizations there actually want peace despite the settlements. I would drag your attention back to "despite the settlements". From my perspective it certainly doesn't seem like being more peaceful is working out for people in the west bank in terms of the colonial settlements. But I guess we could blame that on bibi for making people in the west bank look like a bunch of punks.
    There are no settlements in Gaza, so the settlements in and of themselves are a red herring. Settlements are bad and definitely delay a permanent solution, but they are always a nice scapegoat for when the peace process breaks down. The only thing that I presuppose is that each side needs to come to the table to be able to get to a lasting peace. There are forces that want peace on both sides, but the forces that don't want peace have a much easier time wrecking the process. A true and lasting peace is in the interest of Israel as much as it is in the Palestinians.

    The only thing I am really trying to get to is that blaming Israel for everything doesn't get us closer to peace. It's just another device that is used by those forces that don't want peace. Israel has done some fucked up shit, some of it was justified, some of it was done out of fear, and some of it was just being a huge dick. The problem is that the Palestinians have done some fucked up shit for the same reasons. The only time they really get to the table is when they say fuck the past and try to get to a solution. That is kind of the approach that Rabin and Arafat took. We need more of that.

  4. #64
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    I didn't say that faulted wasn't a word. I said the more appropriate word is faulty.

  5. #65
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    30,595
    BG Level
    10

    No, you said the word I was looking for was "faulty". The appropriate response is "whoops".

  6. #66
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    This is kind of reductive and immature. Hundreds of thousands of palestinians became refugees without a country to call their own when Israel pushed its borders outwards from the original UN mandate. These hundreds of thousands of refugees have since had children and grandchildren and to them the right of return has no statute of limitations, especially since the illegal settlements have been an ongoing event over the last six decades, not something that happened once 50 years ago and never again. Just because Israel has turned a blind eye to the settlements that have now put down permanent roots does not suddenly invalidate legitimate claims to the land by people who legally owned it before it was invaded. Israel and the international community are simply not allowed to dust off their hands and say 'welp, that's that' until the refugees' claims are satisfied.
    You can't just say that Israel "pushed out" its borders without looking at why they pushed out their border. Also, what refugees are you referring to? The ones inside of Gaza and the West Bank, or are you saying the existence of Israel is illegitimate (thus making everyone a refugee)?

  7. #67
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    No, you said the word I was looking for was "faulty". The appropriate response is "whoops".
    Right, the word you were looking for was faulty.

  8. #68
    blax n gunz
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    11,161
    BG Level
    9

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    Also, what refugees are you referring to? The ones inside of Gaza and the West Bank, or are you saying the existence of Israel is illegitimate (thus making everyone a refugee)?
    I'm just giving the number in case someone really wanted to calculate reparations.
    http://www.irinnews.org/report/89571...rs-whereabouts

    The total number of displaced Palestinians worldwide is 7.1 million, including:
    • 6.6 million refugees, and
    • 427,000 internally displaced persons (IDPs)

  9. #69
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    I'm just giving the number in case someone really wanted to calculate reparations.
    http://www.irinnews.org/report/89571...rs-whereabouts
    That number includes Palestinians displaced from a large number of countries. Lets be honest, it's not like they have a lot of friends outside of Israel either (e.g. Jordan, Eqypt, Syria).

  10. #70

    Some infographics and charts about Gaza

    Spoiler: show











  11. #71
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    55,020
    BG Level
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    Israel has removed settlements in the past and it didn't do anything (maybe even made the situation worse).
    If you think the situation is worse for Israel now than before they removed the Gaza settlements, you must not remember the Second Intifada at all.

    Back then the Palestinians were actually doing real damage, bombing buses and shit in Israel, not this piddly rocket shit. Since 2005 Israeli deaths by Palestinians have been extremely low - 10 a year or something.

  12. #72
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    If you think the situation is worse for Israel now than before they removed the Gaza settlements, you must not remember the Second Intifada at all.

    Back then the Palestinians were actually doing real damage, bombing buses and shit in Israel, not this piddly rocket shit. Since 2005 Israeli deaths by Palestinians have been extremely low - 10 a year or something.
    I was just talking about the prospects for peace, not about the situation for Israel.

  13. #73
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    55,020
    BG Level
    10

    The prospects for peace during the second intifada were pretty poor.

    But until Israel stops treating the Palestineans like apartheid prisoners the "prospects for peace" will continue to be bleak.

  14. #74
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    The prospects for peace during the second intifada were pretty poor.

    But until Israel stops treating the Palestineans like apartheid prisoners the "prospects for peace" will continue to be bleak.
    Right, because Oslo didn't happen, or Oslo 2, or any of the other real attempts at peace (that even though they didn't bring full peace, have had periods of stability). As I said, the only way to make the prospect truly bleak is to say one side is completely at fault. That is why I laughed at that infographic implying that the Oslo accords were some kind of stalling mechanism or something. It's really disrespectful to what Arafat and Rabin accomplished and what Rabin gave his life pursuing.

  15. #75
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    55,020
    BG Level
    10

    Stability that includes occupation and oppression isn't an admirable goal.

  16. #76
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,544
    BG Level
    10

    Maybe we should just tell him both sides are bad so he'll stop.

  17. #77
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    30,595
    BG Level
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    Maybe we should just tell him both sides are bad so he'll stop.
    What you really meant to say was both sides contribute.

  18. #78
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,544
    BG Level
    10

    That's a given. I just can't really believe he's making such a fuss over something so obvious.

  19. #79
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7,329
    BG Level
    8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    That's a given. I just can't really believe he's making such a fuss over something so obvious.
    If its so obvious why do you have such a hard time accepting it?

  20. #80
    blax n gunz
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    11,161
    BG Level
    9

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    That number includes Palestinians displaced from a large number of countries.
    What?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 94 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 54 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag