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Thread: Israel vs. Gaza round 99     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #81
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    What?
    There are Palestinians in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, pretty much every middle east country. I am not saying that Israel obviously doesn't have most of them, but it's not like the other countries around Israel treat the Palestinians much better.

    Edit: Actually, I was wrong. Israel doesn't even have most of them, Jordan does.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora

  2. #82
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
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    Maybe because they're immigrants that were pushed out of their native land?

    This just : Native Americans were terrorists.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    There are Palestinians in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, pretty much every middle east country. I am not saying that Israel obviously doesn't have most of them, but it's not like the other countries around Israel treat the Palestinians much better.

    Edit: Actually, I was wrong. Israel doesn't even have most of them, Jordan does.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora
    You said they were displaced from a large number of countries, like other countries kicked them out. Which isn't true.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    You said they were displaced from a large number of countries, like other countries kicked them out. Which isn't true.
    Sorry, I meant that they were in a large number of countries (though they are displaced in places like Egypt). But as I said their treatment in some of those countries isn't the best. None of this is to justify Israeli treatment of the Palestinian populace though.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    If its so obvious why do you have such a hard time accepting it?
    Kuronosan has a better capacity at expressing simple ideas without being verbose. He simply said both sides contribute which is a true and simple statement. You on the other hand, talk a lot of shit.

  6. #86
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    Good old Jon.


  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    Maybe because they're immigrants that were pushed out of their native land?

    This just : Native Americans were terrorists.
    Be very careful with your words there buddy, because Jews have been in that area for over 4000 years, and were pushed out by Arabs and Christians(not before we got crucified, tortured, and killed), which led to the Diaspora. Not only that, but it was because Britain decided it was going to give the land of Israel back to the Jews, without even considering how the Palestinians would end up reacting, and as we saw they did not exactly enjoy being displaced(again, who would?). But instead of trying to talk things out peacefully with ANYONE, the the Arab nations all descended upon Israel, in an attempt to annihilate it not once, but twice they have tried invading and got their shit stomped in. It should also be noted that the current PM of Israel is extremely conservative, and practically the equivalent of Bush(probably a bit smarter though). As I said earlier, there isn't a whole lot Israel can do that WONT make it look bad, and considering if Israel doesn't fight back, then it just becomes a sitting duck who can't defend itself because the media will go "OH LOOK ISRAEL IS BOMBINBS GAZA AGAIN THEYRE SO HATEFUL" while terrorists continue firing rockets/going out of their way to kill Jewish people.

  8. #88
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
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    What the hell did you just say?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurara View Post
    Be very careful with your words there buddy, because Jews have been in that area for over 4000 years, and were pushed out by Arabs and Christians(not before we got crucified, tortured, and killed), which led to the Diaspora. Not only that, but it was because Britain decided it was going to give the land of Israel back to the Jews, without even considering how the Palestinians would end up reacting, and as we saw they did not exactly enjoy being displaced(again, who would?). But instead of trying to talk things out peacefully with ANYONE, the the Arab nations all descended upon Israel, in an attempt to annihilate it not once, but twice they have tried invading and got their shit stomped in. It should also be noted that the current PM of Israel is extremely conservative, and practically the equivalent of Bush(probably a bit smarter though). As I said earlier, there isn't a whole lot Israel can do that WONT make it look bad, and considering if Israel doesn't fight back, then it just becomes a sitting duck who can't defend itself because the media will go "OH LOOK ISRAEL IS BOMBINBS GAZA AGAIN THEYRE SO HATEFUL" while terrorists continue firing rockets/going out of their way to kill Jewish people.
    There are a lot of things Israel can do that will make it look good: stop building settlements, remove the already existing settlements, and stop blockading Gaza.

  10. #90
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    Sure, they absolutely could and you're right. But do you really think that's going to resolve anything? Terrorists would just move back right in, and begin firing rockets at Israel lol. There is no good outcome to this really.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurara View Post
    Sure, they absolutely could and you're right. But do you really think that's going to resolve anything? Terrorists would just move back right in, and begin firing rockets at Israel lol. There is no good outcome to this really.
    It would resolve everyone's problems. Terrorists are always going to exist. You can't stop everyone from hating Israel, but you can get most people to stop hating Israel. Israel can get most people to stop hating it by ending its blockade of Gaza and colonization efforts in the West Bank. Once it does this, terrorists have less reason to fight Israel, and when they do fight Israel they will be the ones who look bad.

    You don't beat insurgents by antagonizing everyone. You beat insurgents by isolating them, and you isolate them by eliminating their justifications for fighting.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    It would resolve everyone's problems. Terrorists are always going to exist. You can't stop everyone from hating Israel, but you can get most people to stop hating Israel. Israel can get most people to stop hating it by ending its blockade of Gaza and colonization efforts in the West Bank. Once it does this, terrorists have less reason to fight Israel, and when they do fight Israel they will be the ones who look bad.

    You don't beat insurgents by antagonizing everyone. You beat insurgents by isolating them, and you isolate them by eliminating their justifications for fighting.
    I strongly disagree with you on the bold part. Terrorist will fight Israel because they hate Jews(I get this isn't the case with every terrorist organization, but the ones who are primarily Arab, hate Jews and want them dead anyways) and want to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth. I really hope that peace ends up coming about in the middle east, but as I say to most people when I talk about this topic we are dealing with an argument that's been going on for over 4000 years, and really can't be resolved by anyone in a nice clean happy-happy-joy-joy way.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurara View Post
    I strongly disagree with you on the bold part. Terrorist will fight Israel because they hate Jews(I get this isn't the case with every terrorist organization, but the ones who are primarily Arab, hate Jews and want them dead anyways) and want to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth. I really hope that peace ends up coming about in the middle east, but as I say to most people when I talk about this topic we are dealing with an argument that's been going on for over 4000 years, and really can't be resolved by anyone in a nice clean happy-happy-joy-joy way.
    It can be resolved in a nice clean happy happy joy joy way by simply ending the blockade of Gaza and by ending settlements in the West Bank. Israel doesn't have to kill anyone to do this.

    Fine if you don't believe there would be less terrorists attacking Israel. But Israel would win the favor of non terrorists Arabs by ending the occupation. And without support from normal arabs, the terrorist organizations have a much more difficult time operating. They will have less support. As long as Israel continues to antagonize all palestinians, whether terrorists or non terrorists, normal palestinians will continue to support those who fight for them, even if they are violent. Meanwhile, Israel could end the support average palestinians give to terrorists by simply ending the occupation. It's in Israel's and Palestine's interest for the occupation to end.

  14. #94
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    less = 0 apparently

  15. #95
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    The terrorist pitch to a 14 year old Palestinean boy is easy right now. If you remove the blockade, remove the settlements, and give them a future beyond being under Israel's thumb, they will see another way.

    #nonotallpalestineans
    #thatsnotthepoint

  16. #96
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    I mean the over arching Arab and Jew conflict mainly Kuya, not this in particular. But what you said is very well thought out, and I agree with what you're saying. Just getting it to happen is the part I'm skeptical about. Because there is always the chance of people going back on their word(this is true for both sides) and then we are back at square one, except without control of the West Bank/Gaza.

    Edit: I didn't see archi's post until after I posted mine. But I agree with what he said.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurara View Post
    I mean the over arching Arab and Jew conflict mainly Kuya, not this in particular. But what you said is very well thought out, and I agree with what you're saying. Just getting it to happen is the part I'm skeptical about. Because there is always the chance of people going back on their word(this is true for both sides) and then we are back at square one, except without control of the West Bank/Gaza.
    Well, you can't change anything without taking any risks, and ending the occupation doesn't just have the benefit of diminishing the terrorists' support and thereby making Israel safer, it is also the right thing to do.

  18. #98
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    True, it is the right thing to do, and really the vast majority of Israelis have voted( around 60%+) saying they are in favor of a Palestinian state it's just a matter of it actually happening.

    Spoiler: show
    A public opinion poll on settlements in the West Bank, conducted annually for the past six years, shows a trend of decreasing support among the Israeli public for the settlers.

    The poll also reveals the public is less opposed to territorial concessions and more concerned of international boycotts, and conditions its support for settlers on their combating Jewish lawbreakers in the territories, including so-called “hilltop youth.”

    The poll, conducted by a think tank led by Prof. Yitzhak Katz, was ordered by the Samaria and Jordan Valley Research and Development Center, and presented at Ariel University. Profs. Miryam Billig and Udi Lebel, who conducted the research, state that the poll shows a drastic decline in public support for settlers since 2009.

    The 550 individuals over the age of 18 who participated in the poll do not reside in the West Bank, and reflect a cross-section of Israeli society. The poll revealed that 59 percent of those questioned believed the settlements harm Israel’s relationship with the United States government. Half of those polled agreed with claims that the budget for settlements come at the expense of education and social welfare, and 40 percent believe that Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria are a waste of the country’s money.

    Seventy-one percent stated that settlers’ clashes with the IDF prevent them from identifying with the settlements, and 54 percent claimed the hilltop youth prevent them from identifying with the settlers as a whole.

    The polls also revealed that a small minority supports perpetuating the status quo (12 percent), while 31 percent would support partial or full annexation of the West Bank, though the majority of the Israeli public (51 percent) would support partial or full disengagement as part of an agreement with the Palestinians.

    At the same time, public support for a peace agreement hinges upon a complete cessation of terror (84 percent) and a Palestinian declaration to end the conflict (82 percent), according to the poll.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.599003

    Article is in the spoiler and link is above.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    #nonotallpalestineans
    i read this as no, no tall palestineans



    because hashtags are fucking stupid

  20. #100

    Quote Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler View Post
    i read this as no, no tall palestineans



    because hashtags are fucking stupid
    Finally, something everyone can agree on.

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