Frontline General

[BerenTebogo]

Mutual handy-j

[Kaixin]

for all the name calling, i know they actually secretly look forward to a new reply from the other, you don't go at each other for that long without some passion behind it

you guys should just 1v1 and get it over with

oh wait SE open world dueling when?

[Elcura]

I thought you only did this with me, you make me sad Dan.

[Seravi Edalborez]

When asked the rationale for maxed VIT traits at low rank, your FC mate said "surviving melee LB1." Not "helps survive focus" or whatever other nonsense you are spouting now, because upgraded PvP abilities are OBVIOUSLY better for that.

Because I assumed it would be obvious.

Of all the PvP abilities you could get instead, Equanimity duration is the only one that helps you in a GIVEN fight (to an extent, Focalization potency and Aetheric Burst reduction). The others are all recast which (because of aforementioned "most fights are short enough to use once if at all") is just for the next fight. Whenever that is.

e: I will concede r12 might be a little early to go max VIT (and if you dont sink the 12 points into it, don't bother). But 16 is fine. 1 in Equanimity, 3 in VIT. Build from there.

[Judai]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that (setting LB aside) the ~950 HP you get from full VIT accessories (and 180HP from full VIT traits) is the difference between easy kill and hardest kill, but the extra 100-200 HP per heal and upgraded PvP abilities are meaningless and will make no difference?

Yes, you are finally correct. Healers with MND gear are dead in seconds and curing for a tiny bit extra is useless when you die instantly. Healers with VIT, can survive our focuses, as long as they are good and have support. Clearly, you haven't PVP'd against anyone halfway decent or you would know the difference between a VIT geared healer and a MND geared one. The extra 1k HP is a pretty big deal and gives you that extra few moments to get your skills/cures off, as well as meaning, bigger Adloqs/Stoneskins on yourself, that we have to break down.

for all the name calling, i know they actually secretly look forward to a new reply from the other, you don't go at each other for that long without some passion behind it

I just hate when stupid people post dumb information like he does all the time.

[Raldo]

Man, all this VIT talk makes me want to VIT-spec one of my healer jobs.

[Spider-Dan]

The extra 1k HP is a pretty big deal and gives you that extra few moments to get your skills/cures off, as well as meaning, bigger Adloqs/Stoneskins on yourself, that we have to break down.

With the exception of Swiftcast, you aren't casting anything but Lustrate/Bene on yourself when you are being focused unless you have PvP abilities active; the same abilities you just said are less important of an upgrade than 180HP.

I also find it hilarious that you are citing bigger Adloqs as an important part of keeping healers alive at the same time you are saying MND is useless.

[Kirbyprime]

Equanimity and Surecast. Building for tank means that other healers have more time to heal you. Focus targeting MND oriented healers in FL is fun.

[Rocl]

Finding the weak healer in a group is a pretty key strategy me and the two-three people I queue with employ. It sounds like someone in this argument would be an easy target

[Elcura]

I have more HP than most tanks and DPS. Fucking come at me.

[Neon_Sea]

Tanky white mage roll up like, "Need a heal bitch?"

[Kaisha]

Man, all this VIT talk makes me want to VIT-spec one of my healer jobs.

It's the surest way to guarantee you'll survive LB1 in a VIT-geared setup.

If I didn't DPS in Coil2 on SCH I'd have gone 30VIT already for Frontline. Annoying going to double-digit HP after a Braver and hoping I don't have dots tic before my lustrate goes off.

Finding the weak healer in a group is a pretty key strategy me and the two-three people I queue with employ.

A lot of people who queue don't seem to realize you can check your opponents gear. Macros that mark & /c <t> go a long way.

Lamia seems to be the universal "terrible FL players" server for Flames on Primal. Every loudmouth DPS we've seen so far doing less then 10k damage and dying 4+ times has been from there.

I really don't know how some people are so bad, and this is all people who were in there from the start of the match. You're a DPS, you rarely get targeted first when in a group, you should be pulling 30k+ easily across a match when you're not group B.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, it's going to be a lot more conspicuous when you live due to extra HP than it will be when someone else dies due to lack of heals. And you can't exactly /c someone and see that all their points are in VIT traits; all that you see is that they didn't use any abilities and they eventually died.

I can accept the argument that in a pre-made, when you know how many healers you will have every time, the individual potency of each healer is probably not that important. But the idea that 180 HP helps you survive focus better than 3 PvP upgrades is just ridiculous.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Well, it's going to be a lot more conspicuous when you live due to extra HP than it will be when someone else dies due to lack of heals. And you can't exactly /c someone and see that all their points are in VIT traits; all that you see is that they didn't use any abilities and they eventually died.

I can accept the argument that in a pre-made, when you know how many healers you will have every time, the individual potency of each healer is probably not that important. But the idea that 180 HP helps you survive focus better than 3 PvP upgrades is just ridiculous.

For clarity, this is where I would put my first 4 points if I did not spend on VIT:
Equanimity 1/2, Attunement, Divine Breath 1

With VIT:
Equanimity (either), VIT 3

I would say usual match time is around 15 minutes if not a little sooner and you'll generally start using abilities at 1-2 minutes in by virtue of travel time and not usually needing them asap. So recast reduction on Eq/Attune/DB turns them from 3/3/2 times a match to 4/4/3 times. They are bonuses but not something that will save every single fight.

Individual potency is probably the least important stat in here for healers assuming you are at ilvl. I don't know if you've tried to take a point with 3 tanky healers but it's extremely difficult if they and the rest of their party know what they are doing. It would not be hyperbole to say I have never seen a healer in MND accs do exceptionally well in any solo queue, watching enemy healers, or random pickup healers we get when we're not a complete premade. They are almost always the first to die by virtue of having 1k less HP. Even in our premades we have healers who are less suited to pvp healing than others and it is extremely evident to everyone in the party when they are with the unskilled ones.

Compared to that, is the bonus from VIT trait small? Sure. But it's also constant. If you really want, just spend those 3 upgrades wherever and eat food instead.

Also not having VIT puts you embarrassingly close to Caster LB1 death threshold.

[Spider-Dan]

I presume when you refer to "a healer in MND accs," you are referring to someone who is 5/5 MND accs and not a mix of MND and VIT?

[Seravi Edalborez]

Yes. There is 0 reason to not wear full VIT even if it gives non-ideal secondaries.

Unless you are "lucky" enough to have claim on a flag, be able to sit behind a pillar and play long-range heal support and the other team is too stupid to zerg the shit out of you. Then MND healer can work. But this almost never happens.

[Spider-Dan]

So someone with 800 extra HP (4/5 VIT) also gets focused and dies instantly? How about 3/5?

Because that line of logic basically says that if you are missing the ~500 HP from not respec'ing your healer from MND to VIT (something that you cannot /check people for), you are also dead weight.

[Seravi Edalborez]

30VIT allotment isn't required and I only do it because I don't use my SCH for PvE anymore. "Dead weight" is a kind of loose threshold but if you wanted to put a hard number on it, 4.3 to 4.5k over the 3.8ish you would have with full MND. However you wanna obtain that. More just makes you harder to kill.

Consider that more HP is also putting your Misery's End / Mercy Stroke threshold higher up, slightly better Stoneskin, natural regen, Lustrate, Bene I guess.

[Spider-Dan]

Depending on food and such, that should be about 3/5 VIT accs.

[blowfin]

Ended up getting my third win for the week on my 7th match last night, pulled 1405 EXP out of it. Good times. Hard to go back to scrub EXP now...