Education and Your measure of success

[kuronosan]

Drug them fuckers, though.

[Viq]

Partying has absolutely nothing to do with why I chose to go to college. I am too old for that shit. I'm there to learn.

Maybe that's what kids go there for, but I outgrew that phase a long time ago.

This is the boat I'm in. I spent 6-7 years after high school trying different jobs and hobbies both to build various experiences, and because I hated studying in high school. Once I found something that grabbed my interest enough to want to make a career out of it, I set about doing what I had to do to get myself back into school.

Now I see kids in my class planning parties, or complaining about how they couldn't study for a test because they stayed up all night playing LOL. College to them is just the next place to go because that's what they were told they had to do, even more so here in Korea than it was back in the States. To me, on the other hand, college is where I want to be to learn and develop the fundamental knowledge that I will need going forward in my field, as well as that piece of paper that is often a bare minimum requirement for a lot of jobs. So my focus is entirely on the academics, and not at all on "the college experience."

As for the topic of success in general, it's something that I am asked about almost every day. The idea of a person getting into college in their late 20s in Korea is unheard of. A lot of people make the assumption that I spent half of my life actively trying to waste as much time as possible. I personally am extremely happy with the path I have taken, and I know that I would not have gotten as much out of my time in college had I gone right after high school. I've had the opportunity to live not just in multiple cities, but multiple countries. I experienced a partying lifestyle while traveling a little and playing in a punk band. I've worked with the outgoing expenditures of an insurance company (more interesting than I expected), been at a medium-sized IT company when it got bought out by a multi-national conglomerate, and been involved in the process by which new toys are designed developed (less interesting than I expected). A life full of diverse experiences and diverse people around me has left me feeling greatly satisfied. It is by this measure that I view success.

[Lucienne]

Thank you CS I hope it sparks a good discussion too.

Lucienne to counter I don't think choosing a career that is different than your field of study in college means that you are not putting in proper effort or wasting time, money or energy. There are a lot of different reasons that different people choose the career or job that they enjoy and stick with. And lots of people achieved amazing things in this world having never been to college or doing something completely different than what they studied in college once they graduated.

Not putting proper effort into the things you do is a complete waste of money, time and energy. People who do that are either too young or too stupid to know better. No one has ever achieved anything by half arsine.

Referred to not putting effort into studying, said nothing about choice of career. Not sure how you got that.
I don't work in the field I originally studied.

Do you think college is purely for education, something in between, or purely to prepare people for a specific career?

What you get out of going to college is pure personal and differs from person to person. Its primary function is educational and it should provide good enough theoretical base in the studied field. Besides that it also offers a great platform for networking, your peers, professors and guest lecturers are all people you might find beneficial to you later in life.

What is your measure for success in life?

I don't measure success. I don't find it interesting. I guess it would be a scale between the things you have to do and the things you enjoy doing. The more of the things you enjoy doing, regardless of what they are, that you can fill your life with, the more successful you are.

What makes you happy with your career?

Being able to influence my work situations, seeing my ideas take form in reality, learning new things, working with people I find inspiring, having fun.

What factors do you use when choosing a job?

Will I enjoy the tasks? Will it be developing for me professionally? Do I know enough to do it successfully?

Do you choose where to live then choose a career in that area or do you choose a career and go wherever it takes you?

I have done both. I loved both of the jobs I moved for.

Should people feel obligated to work at a job that is in their field of study in college?

Nope

Is it ok to choose a job that isn't related to your field of study even if it earns you less money?

As long as it's what you want, yes.

[Quixon]

Do you think college is purely for education, something in between, or purely to prepare people for a specific career?

College is for networking and learning some life skills like dealing with deadlines, juggling work and social responsibilities, etc. It's not what you know, it's who you know. No one gives a shit about your piece of paper you spent 10-90k on, almost everyone has one.

What is your measure for success in life?

Being able to support your given lifestyle comfortably. For me, that is owning a home, having a family, and having enough money for hobbies and leasure while still being able to pay my bills and save.

What makes you happy with your career?

Money, potential for advancement, job security. That is why we work, to make money. A lot of people do not though. My goal is amass enough money to retire, while still living a comfortable life as stress free as possible.

What factors do you use when choosing a job?

Salary/benefits, proximity to home, job security/business stability.

Do you choose where to live then choose a career in that area or do you choose a career and go wherever it takes you?

There's no right or wrong answer. I had a job, bought a house, job turned to shit.... got a new job close. I got VERY lucky, as there is not much work in my area. I would have to commute 2 hours to NYC every day. I would lean towards choosing a career and go where it takes you if I were to do it again.

Should people feel obligated to work at a job that is in their field of study in college?

Absolutely not.

Is it ok to choose a job that isn't related to your field of study even if it earns you less money?

Of course. Whatever makes you happy.

[zoobernut]

Referred to not putting effort into studying, said nothing about choice of career. Not sure how you got that.
I don't work in the field I originally studied.


What you get out of going to college is pure personal and differs from person to person. Its primary function is educational and it should provide good enough theoretical base in the studied field. Besides that it also offers a great platform for networking, your peers, professors and guest lecturers are all people you might find beneficial to you later in life.


I don't measure success. I don't find it interesting. I guess it would be a scale between the things you have to do and the things you enjoy doing. The more of the things you enjoy doing, regardless of what they are, that you can fill your life with, the more successful you are.


Being able to influence my work situations, seeing my ideas take form in reality, learning new things, working with people I find inspiring, having fun.


Will I enjoy the tasks? Will it be developing for me professionally? Do I know enough to do it successfully?


I have done both. I loved both of the jobs I moved for.


Nope


As long as it's what you want, yes.

Interesting. I assumed that is what you were talking about because I never said anything about not studying or putting effort into school. I just felt like I disagreed with your original statement. I interpreted your original statement as one that puts too much emphasis on the idea that you should feel obligated to work in your field of study after you graduate and I think that devalues education.

Later on the response to me from another person seemed to imply that they thought anyone who didn't work in a job that was directly related to their field of study was "a retard" and that specially applied to art majors, and this point was emphasized if you were making less money in your current job than you could potentially make in your chosen field of study.

I obviously definitely agree with everything you have said here though.

[BaneTheBrawler]

i feel like my standards probably don't apply here, as the principle condition of success is being alive.

[Jaybar]

Do you think college is purely for education, something in between, or purely to prepare people for a specific career?:

It's definitely not the latter - at least for my field. I studied architecture and if you think the degree alone will suffice for a career you are already headed in the wrong path. College to me is meant to teach you how to think for yourself with advanced problem solving. If you can't critically think beyond memorizing then you have wasted (or the college wasted) your time.

What is your measure for success in life?

For the field of architecture, there really isn't a "measure". Some will say getting licensed, others having their first project as lead architect under your belt, and me personally having a positive impact to the community from your project.

What makes you happy with your career?

Just doing the work is extremely fulfilling. I don't go into my job loathing the workload I have to accomplish. I will go in early and leave late very often because the work is compelling and good (my current long-term project is a retro-fit/adaptive re-use which is a big focus in my career, so I'm really happy to work on it at such an early start in my career).

What factors do you use when choosing a job?

For an architectural firm, I look at mission goals and portfolios. If they are actively involved in sustainable/traditional/urban work I am interested.

Do you choose where to live then choose a career in that area or do you choose a career and go wherever it takes you?

I centered on firms in the Chicago area since that is where I and many of my colleagues work/live. The career choices for architects are very regional - west coast is very contemporary, and east coast is traditional and modern. I tried to stay away from the west coast (except a select couple firms that I did not get into) because I did not believe their philosophy was a great approach. If I wanted to go where the jobs were, I would be in NY right now, though.

Should people feel obligated to work at a job that is in their field of study in college?

Depends on their study, but if you studied architecture/design I'd say you have great tools acquired from college studios, and that it would be a tragedy to not find a job within your field. Find a job to keep you on your feet (service, labor, etc) but always keep seeking.

Is it ok to choose a job that isn't related to your field of study even if it earns you less money?

If it makes you happy go for it. If your field makes you happy you should not stop searching. If you give up then that is not ok. If your field makes you not happy then find your happy place.

[zoobernut]

Here is another follow up question, this one is more directly related to my personal current situation.

I am looking at getting a new job. I just applied today. I have heard in the past that it is damaging to your resume to take a job that pays far less than previous jobs in your field. That it devalues you if you then apply to future positions. Has anyone found this to be true? This new job pays about $10k a year less than my old job but obviously its location is close to where we are living now which is a bonus.

[Lucienne]

Here is another follow up question, this one is more directly related to my personal current situation.

I am looking at getting a new job. I just applied today. I have heard in the past that it is damaging to your resume to take a job that pays far less than previous jobs in your field. That it devalues you if you then apply to future positions. Has anyone found this to be true? This new job pays about $10k a year less than my old job but obviously its location is close to where we are living now which is a bonus.

If the only reason in proximity to home then I'd say yes. It will be damaging. From an employer's point of view, no one cares about your family. It shows very clearly where your priorities are (not the job) and no one is interested in supporting people who lack ambition. Unless you can make it look like you took the job for a different reason, let's say to acquire a new skill, I'd rather wait for a different opening if I were you.

[Cream Soda]

Can I bet your butler, Lucie?

[zoobernut]

If the only reason in proximity to home then I'd say yes. It will be damaging. From an employer's point of view, no one cares about your family. It shows very clearly where your priorities are (not the job) and no one is interested in supporting people who lack ambition. Unless you can make it look like you took the job for a different reason, let's say to acquire a new skill, I'd rather wait for a different opening if I were you.

Yeah I am hoping that I get far enough in the interview process that I actually get to negotiate compensation with HR but I agree with what you said. If they are not willing to come up in compensation to a level appropriate to my experience and that is competitive with the industry then I will pass on it and keep looking.

[Moss]

Here is another follow up question, this one is more directly related to my personal current situation.

I am looking at getting a new job. I just applied today. I have heard in the past that it is damaging to your resume to take a job that pays far less than previous jobs in your field. That it devalues you if you then apply to future positions. Has anyone found this to be true? This new job pays about $10k a year less than my old job but obviously its location is close to where we are living now which is a bonus.

How are future companies even going to know that you made less money just by looking at your resume? Is it a lesser position?

[Kipling]

I didn't paste your questions as I am not working yet from a career perspective (new law student), but I went primarily to better myself and see if I could find something I was passionate about.

I actually failed out of college when I was 18, so going back at 21 was not a career decision because technically I could support myself. I suppose what I am saying is I could not have brought myself to go back just for a piece of paper to make more money, and it think the people who view college as a rat race for an eventual bigger pay check lose out on the value of the education you actually receive. I loved my time in undergrad, and I strengthened my passion for History (which my degree is in) and many other subjects as well. Overall I just feel like a more complete and developed person. I am sure Law School will give me the same results, just much more intense.

Also, I met my fiancée at my university and that is definitely something that's made me so much more happy as a person in general. She's only served to make my life better, and we got to go through college together because we were the same year and only a year apart age wise.

[The Stig]

Do you think college is purely for education, something in between, or purely to prepare people for a specific career?
Life lessons. I sum it up as "how to not be a prick" (many fail)

What is your measure for success in life?
Not caring how successful others are.

What makes you happy with your career?
Achieving Bunny Ears Lawyer status within reason
No one wants to admit it though (for me) but that's what I personally feel

What factors do you use when choosing a job?
I don't know anymore. Besides the obvious.

Do you choose where to live then choose a career in that area or do you choose a career and go wherever it takes you?
Prior to owning a home, the latter. Now, it's more the former -- I don't want to risk renting it out either (might as well sell it).

Should people feel obligated to work at a job that is in their field of study in college?
Yes. Experience it now and pull out before it's too late, go do other things.

Is it ok to choose a job that isn't related to your field of study even if it earns you less money?
Can't be that picky in life. If you really can't get a job and you need to work or suffer, then work elsewhere while seeking for the overall goal. I'd happily go back to working in a supermarket/fast food place in my current state. I miss having a good banter/piss around at work (the type that makes you laugh until it hurts).

I am looking at getting a new job. I just applied today. I have heard in the past that it is damaging to your resume to take a job that pays far less than previous jobs in your field. That it devalues you if you then apply to future positions. Has anyone found this to be true? This new job pays about $10k a year less than my old job but obviously its location is close to where we are living now which is a bonus.

I believe deep down it's true but sometimes, it's just a matter of "well, fuck you, I needed a job to pay bills and that's what I could get!". Priorities change and people should well understand that. I'm personally an unorthodox/quirky person but from my point of view if I was a manager I'd praise you for doing so as it shows your willingness to do things outside your usual remit if the role is different, or that you're not uptight enough to narrow mind yourself to a particular job.

On top of that, it's also industry dependant. Some requires you to be aggressive or dropout. I personally think (and this answer ties in to the success question) if your values don't agree with it then it's typically not worth it as you're in for a hell of a ride. I find my own integrity/morals clashing with others as I am sometimes disgusted (depressed?) with what goes on behind the scenes.

@Uryuu:

Also, I met my fiancée at my university and that is definitely something that's made me so much more happy as a person in general. She's only served to make my life better, and we got to go through college together because we were the same year and only a year apart age wise.

I was hoping that would happen to me but it never materialised

[Enedin]

What is your measure for success in life?
Giving your own life meaning and living your life according to the meaning you gave to it - all the while striving to become a better person. Also getting to truly know yourself is something a lot of people don't bother with, but it has helped me tremendously.

What makes you happy with your career?
I can use my creativity and it's appreciated. I also grow and learn every day.

What factors do you use when choosing a job?
Proximity, pay, feeling I have during interview. I'm able to do plenty of jobs as long as I feel good at my workplace.

Should people feel obligated to work at a job that is in their field of study in college?
No, absolutely not. I know plenty of people who do something completely different and they like doing that a lot more. It takes time to find out what you want, especially when you don't know how to listen to yourself and you keep listening to others' opinions.

Is it ok to choose a job that isn't related to your field of study even if it earns you less money?
Yes. Money is just a means to an end, and once you have the basics covered, earning more and more won't be that awesome anymore.

[Kipling]

I was hoping that would happen to me but it never materialised

I legitimately wasn't expecting it at all. I'm that guy that had 2-3 super close friends throughout UG (all the same major so we studied together at times too) and other than that did not socialize or go on dates at all. She randomly started talking to me when I was at the tram stop, and she ended up being the same way except instead of spending all of her time on MMOs it's comic books and graphic novels, lol.

It was literally just chance. I'm a big believer in the idea that it will happen when it happens, especially when you weren't looking for it or even concerned with it like I was.

[The Stig]

A nice dosage of serendipity (love that film) then! Actually while I had hoped it would happen to me, I also didn't go out actively looking for it nor am I concerned. I'm also "that guy" too; and it happened at a tram stop too!

Oh, on the subject of success, I grow to dislike people that talk about it. "I got to where I was because...". A good measure would be not having to talk about it from my point of view and only review it naturally. I just don't like listening to success (in life: general) stories.

[Moss]

She randomly started talking to me when I was at the tram stop, and she ended up being the same way except instead of spending all of her time on MMOs it's comic books and graphic novels, lol.

It was literally just chance. I'm a big believer in the idea that it will happen when it happens, especially when you weren't looking for it or even concerned with it like I was.

Quick aside to foreveralones: don't wait for this to happen to you, put yourself out there. Otherwise you will be 40 and alone and wondering why a girl never approached you at a tram stop.

Oh, on the subject of success, I grow to dislike people that talk about it. "I got to where I was because...". A good measure would be not having to talk about it from my point of view and only review it naturally. I just don't like listening to success (in life: general) stories.

On the surface I agree with you, people that talk about their own successes at length, without prompting, are tools. You sound bitter as fuck though.

[The Stig]

On the surface I agree with you, people that talk about their own successes at length, without prompting, are tools. You sound bitter as fuck though.

Yeh I am (glad you agree with me on the former statement though, you know exactly what I am talking about), especially some that don't deserve to be there in the first place (I mentioned in my first reply to this thread about how some stuff happens behind the scenes). As I'm constantly hearing such stories (from clients to work-peers, I usually force a smile and go "nice" enthusiastically), which in turn probably evolved into my mind questioning if my path.

It's a case of Too Many Cooks Spoil The Broth here for me. Hearing too many stories of success convuluted my own percieved success (if any) and the view of it.

For example, there's a case that happened recently at work and as a result a colleague was shifted to a top tier client under the eyes of a very senior manager. However, speaking about what I presumed happened would open up a whole case of HR-disputes which would lead me getting fired for even thinking so and cries of "no that's not what happened". I'll never know the truth, but it's blatant enough. However this colleague then has the arrogance to tell me how to be successful and promptly screwed off elsewhere with no contact or support or assistance/handover.

[Moss]

I've been lucky enough to not be surrounded by too many people like that, I guess. I can definitely see where you're coming from, that shit would get old quick.