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  1. #1
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Programming Advice: Where to go from here?

    Due to some recent events with my current job, I want to leave and find another job in the programming industry. However, the problem is I'm at a pretty big disadvantage since I only have a 2 year degree in CIS. Because of this, I want to go back to brushing up on what I know and learning some new stuff to help me out with finding a new job. At first I was thinking of brushing up on C# and learning Unity 3D, but I'm not sure how much demand there would be for a skill set like that (If anyone can prove me wrong on this, let me know). So instead I thought the best idea would be to ask others here who work/have experience in the programming field and what they suggest.

    Anyway for my skills, like I said I only have a 2 year degree, so don't expect too much:

    • HTML and CSS design in both DreamWeaver and Notepad++
    • C# and ASP.NET programming in Visual Studio 2010
    • Java and .JSP programming in WebSphere
    • SQL and using SQL queries in Java, C#, and PHP (through DreamWeaver)


    I've also done a few things on the side (JavaScript, VB, Android Programming, and VBScript) however my time with these is rather limited and I don't think would benefit me much in the long run.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll answer them the best I can.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Special at 11:30 or w/e
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    I'm starting classes on Monday to get my associates in programming. I know nothing about it right now, but my brother in law is a computer engineer for Ford. To steer me in the right direction for self help he suggested the websites listed below. I hope this can help you.

    http://www.lynda.com/default.aspx
    http://www.w3schools.com/
    http://jquery.com/

  3. #3
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    Perhaps branch into different types or paradigms of languages. While Java/C# are pretty big atm, it's good to have a larger toolbox for yourself. Things like Lisp, F#, D, Prolog, and such aren't used very much if at all, but are interesting to write things in if only because it's foreign and would force you to research.

    Being more confident in "knowing you don't know" can help a bit when you're looking at a project, since then you have a better feeling of where your researching focuses might be when planning things. Maybe try writing out plans for your projects, like high-level overviews of what needs to be accomplished, how, with what stuff, and maybe some diagrams with functions and modules showing data flows (inputs and outputs). All the things before writing code, and keep a written journal of your trials (an "engineering notebook"). I'm just borrowing some ideas from a design class I had. Honestly, with your general experience so far, that's probably the next step: planning and detailed design.

    That's probably the biggest thing I've gotten during my CS degree: how much confidence I can have when researching what I don't know. Of course, it helps to have an interest in solving problems. I think my activity on this subforum says a little about that .

  4. #4
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    True, branching out in other languages is helpful, however I'm more concerned about if there's anything I should learn with my current languages/etc. Mostly since a lot of job postings expect you to know both that language and a lot of other stuff. Wondering what else would go hand-to-hand with what I know.

  5. #5
    Chram
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    I guess it depends on what you want to do. It sounds like you are most interested (or experienced) in web development so I would continue to focus on those skills if you want to keep moving in that direction. If you want to get into game development something like Unity or even transitioning into C++ could be useful. Learning about design patterns is always a good thing. If you are interviewing, re-familiarize yourself with the programming "basics." They will likely ask you about data structures, OO concepts, abstract classes vs interfaces, etc. Some may even have a code challenge. Branching out into different languages is always a cool thing to do, but if you are interviewing make sure to focus mostly on those languages imo. You can play around with other languages later.

    Reading is great, but don't get stuck in a rut where you are only ever reading, you need to be writing code too. Think about some project you want to do. It could be an app that utilizes an API to do something interesting. Blizzard recently redid some of their API stuff and they wrote a blog about it. You could write a site that sucks in data from the API and does something with it. Web dev tends to make use of a lot of web services so familiarizing yourself with how to consume that data is useful. If you want to do game dev, write some simple games to get you started. If you want to do more web dev stuff make a website about anything. Could be a simple blog site, or something else you find interesting. You don't have to do something super different and creative, you just need to be doing something you find challenging / interesting.

    There are a ton of online resources you can use to better yourself.
    https://projecteuler.net/ - A ton of programming exercises (seems to lean a lot towards math)
    http://www.codecademy.com/ - Learn by doing, has a pretty wide selection of different languages to learn about.
    https://www.udemy.com/ - Great resource, mostly paid content but you can find some nice deals on Stack Social or even find some free content scattered about. http://courses.caveofprogramming.com/ has some free courses on Udemy that you can sign up for. It's all video tutorials and such.
    Reddit. /r/programming, /r/java, etc. Reddit is a pretty great resource for information.

    Oh and I almost forgot. Whatever you do, start putting your code up in a repository like GitHub or Bitbucket. If you are not familiar with version control, make that a priority. I would be more than happy to help you learn if you need a hand. That is hands down one of the most important things you could ever learn.

    Hope that helps.

    Source: Also have a 2 year degree like you, approaching 4 years of experience in the programming industry. Some companies will flat out not look at you because you don't have a 4 year degree, but you probably don't want to work for a company that is close minded like that. Know your shit and show them you know your shit and you should be fine.

  6. #6
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Yeah, experienced would be the word. Just like a damn near large chuck of a lot of people I knew when I was studying and whatnot, we wanted to program games. While I'd still love to experience that (Hence wanting to study up on Unity 3D), I know that's pretty much a jump over a gaping chasam with what I currently know. Main reason I took a CIS degree was I had pretty much no options. Didn't have the money to travel somewhere else and the only other place I seen with a programming degree had standards for who they accepted (Spoiler: I was horrible in High School) I pretty much took a leap of faith with a 2 year degree at a tech school.

    But yeah, thanks for the URLs. Right now I'm trying to complie a bunch of links/etc. on my laptop so I can start studying again.

  7. #7
    Chram
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    If you really ultimately want to get into game dev I think you absolutely can. With the way indie games are today I think it may be easier than ever to get into game dev. This is speculation but I am guessing the step into indie game dev is a lot easier than trying to jump into a AAA studio like Blizzard.

    I got into programming because I always wanted to do game dev and like you I didn't feel like I had a lot of options due to resources so I also went the 2 year CIS route. I'd like to think if I want it bad enough I could make the leap, but honestly I have enjoyed what I have been doing thus far so never put the effort in. You could always make the jump into web dev at a game studio and work your way in the door that way.

  8. #8

    I'm frequently in the position of either directly hiring other programmers, or setting the policies of people who do.

    How to impress another programmer:

    1. Know what you don't know, and show a willingness to learn quickly.

    That's about it. Learning one tech really in-depth is just pigeon holing yourself, orinthia was right in that going outside your comfortable zone for personal projects will advance your understanding WAY more than doubling down on anything you already know.

    I often tell beginners they can consider themselves not-beginners anymore when they can:

    Learn one from each category and complete a minor project in it.

    (keeping in mind, I define paradigms slightly different than classical paradigms)
    Procedural: (ex. C, Fortran)
    OO: (ex. C++, Java, C#)
    LISP(ex. Clojure, SBCL, Scheme)
    Functional(ex. Haskell, OCaml, Coq)
    Functional-Reactive(ex. Elm, Excel Spreadsheets)
    Fault-Tolerant(ex. Erlang, Elixir)
    Logical(ex. Prolog, Mercury)
    Assembly-like(ex. HLSL, Harlan, various openGL/DX shader languages)
    Event-Driven(ex. VB.net, Javascript paired with a browser)
    Relational(ex. SQL)

    Brainfuck...always learn Brainfuck.


    This all ties back into the knowing what you don't know aspect. If you don't have SOME working knowledge of the above, then you don't know what you don't know. If you do, you'll always be prepared to evaluate the best tool for a given job.

  9. #9
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    Brainfuck...always learn Brainfuck.
    Gave me a giggle and I looked it up.

    Assuming I learn it, is it ok to put in a resume/CV? lol

    edit: you know what, fuck this, just saw the code for hello world

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    Gave me a giggle and I looked it up.

    Assuming I learn it, is it ok to put in a resume/CV? lol

    edit: you know what, fuck this, just saw the code for hello world
    +[--->++<]>+++.[->++++<]>+.[--->+<]>----.-[++>---<]>+.------------.-[--->++<]>-.+++++++++++.+[--->+<]>.-[->+++<]>+.+[---->+<]>+++.[->+++<]>+.++..++.+++++++++++.++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.++++++++++.-------.--[--->+<]>-.---[->++++<]>.-----.[--->+<]>-----.[-->+++++++<]>.+++++.-.[---->+<]>+++.-[--->++<]>-.+++++++++++.[---->+<]>+++.+++++[->+++<]>.-.-[->+++++<]>-.--[->++++<]>+.----------.++++++.---.[-->+++++<]>+++.+[->++<]>+.>+[--->++<]>.[-->+<]>+++.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darus Grey View Post
    +[--->++<]>+++.[->++++<]>+.[--->+<]>----.-[++>---<]>+.------------.-[--->++<]>-.+++++++++++.+[--->+<]>.-[->+++<]>+.+[---->+<]>+++.[->+++<]>+.++..++.+++++++++++.++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.++++++++++.-------.--[--->+<]>-.---[->++++<]>.-----.[--->+<]>-----.[-->+++++++<]>.+++++.-.[---->+<]>+++.-[--->++<]>-.+++++++++++.[---->+<]>+++.+++++[->+++<]>.-.-[->+++++<]>-.--[->++++<]>+.----------.++++++.---.[-->+++++<]>+++.+[->++<]>+.>+[--->++<]>.[-->+<]>+++.
    +++++ +++[- >++++ ++++< ]>+++ +++++ +++++ ++.<+ ++++[ ->+++ ++<]> .<+++
    +++++ [->-- ----- -<]>- ----- --.<+ +++++ +++[- >++++ +++++ <]>++ ++++.
    ----- ---.+ +++++ ++.<+ +++++ +++[- >---- ----- <]>-- ----. <++++ +++++
    [->++ +++++ ++<]> +++.< +++[- >---< ]>--- .---- ---.< ++++[ ->+++ +<]>+
    ++.<+ +++++ +++[- >---- ----- <]>-- -.<++ +++++ ++[-> +++++ ++++< ]>+++
    +++.- ----- --.++ ++++. ----- ----. ----- ---.< +++++ +++[- >---- ----<
    ]>--- -.<++ +++++ +[->+ +++++ ++<]> ++.++ +.<++ +++++ +[->- ----- --<]>
    ----- .<+++ +++++ +[->+ +++++ +++<] >++.- ---.< +++++ +++[- >---- ----<
    ]>--- ----- ----- --.<+ +++++ ++[-> +++++ +++<] >+.<+ +++[- >++++ <]>++
    ++++. <++++ [->-- --<]> --.<+ ++[-> +++<] >++++ +.--- -.--. ----- ---.<
    +++++ +++[- >---- ----< ]>--- --.<+ +++++ +++[- >++++ +++++ <]>++ +.---
    --.<+ +++++ ++[-> ----- ---<] >---- ----- ----- -.<++ +++++ ++[-> +++++
    ++++< ]>++. <+++[ ->--- <]>-- ---.. <++++ ++++[ ->--- ----- <]>-- ---.<
    +++++ +++[- >++++ ++++< ]>+++ +++++ +.+++ ++.++ ++++. <+++[ ->--- <]>--
    ----. <+++[ ->+++ <]>++ ++.++ ++.<+ ++[-> ---<] >---- .---- .<+++ +[->+
    +++<] >++.< ++++[ ->--- -<]>- -.<++ +[->+ ++<]> ++++. +.<++ +++++ ++[->
    ----- ----< ]>--. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ +++++ +++++ .+++. .----
    .--.+ ++++. ----- --.<+ +++++ ++[-> ----- ---<] >---- ---.< +++++ +++[-
    >++++ ++++< ]>+.< ++++[ ->+++ +<]>+ ++.<+ +++++ +++[- >---- ----- <]>--
    -.<++ +++++ +[->+ +++++ ++<]> +++++ ++++. <+++[ ->+++ <]>++ .<+++ +++++
    +[->- ----- ---<] >---. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>+. <+++[ ->+++ <]>++
    ++.<+ ++[-> ---<] >-.<+ +++++ ++[-> ----- ---<] >---- .<+++ +++++ [->++
    +++++ +<]>+ +.+++ .--.< +++[- >+++< ]>+++ .--.- ---.+ ++++. ----- --.<+
    +++++ ++[-> ----- ---<] >---- ---.< +++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ +<]>+ +++.-
    ----- -.<++ +[->- --<]> --.<+ ++[-> +++<] >+++. --.-- ----- .++++ +++++
    .+++. ++.<+ +++[- >---- <]>-- -.+.< +++[- >+++< ]>+.- ----- -.<++ +++++
    [->-- ----- <]>-- ----- -.<++ +[->- --<]> ---.< +++++ +++[- >++++ ++++<
    ]>+.< ++++[ ->+++ +<]>+ +..++ .---- ----. ----. +++++ .---- ---.< +++++
    +++[- >---- ----< ]>--- ----. <++++ ++[-> +++++ +<]>+ ++++. <++++ ++[->
    ----- -<]>- ----. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ +++++ .--.< +++[- >+++<
    ]>+++ +++.< +++++ ++++[ ->--- ----- -<]>- --.<+ +++++ +++[- >++++ +++++
    <]>++ +.<++ +[->- --<]> ---.- ----- -.<++ ++[-> ++++< ]>+++ .<+++ +++++
    +[->- ----- ---<] >---. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ ++++. ----- .<+++
    +[->+ +++<] >+.<+ +++++ ++[-> ----- ---<] >---- --.<+ ++[-> ---<] >---.
    <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ +++++ +++++ +++.+ ++.<+ +++++ +++[- >----
    ----- <]>-. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>+. <++++ [->++ ++<]> ++..+ +.---
    ----- .---- .++++ +.--- ----. <++++ ++++[ ->--- ----- <]>-- ----- .<+++
    +++[- >++++ ++<]> ++++. <+++[ ->+++ <]>+. <++++ +++[- >---- ---<] >-.<+
    +++++ ++[-> +++++ +++<] >++++ +++++ +++++ +.+++ .<+++ +++++ +[->- -----
    ---<] >-.<+ +++++ ++[-> +++++ +++<] >++++ +.<++ +[->+ ++<]> +++.+ +++.<
    +++[- >---< ]>--- .<+++ [->++ +<]>+ +++.< ++++[ ->--- -<]>- ----. <+++[
    ->+++ <]>++ .---- ---.+ +++++ +++.+ +++++ .<+++ +++++ +[->- ----- ---<]
    >---. <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ ++.<+ ++[-> +++<] >++.< +++[- >---<
    ]>-.< +++[- >+++< ]>+++ ++.-- ---.< +++++ +++[- >---- ----< ]>--- ----.
    <++++ ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ +++++ +++++ +.<++ +++++ ++[-> ----- ----<
    ]>--- .<+++ +++++ +[->+ +++++ +++<] >++.+ .--.- ----- ---.+ +++++ +.<++
    +++++ +[->- ----- --<]> ----- ----- ----- -.<++ +++++ +[->+ +++++ ++<]>
    +++++ ++++. <+++[ ->+++ <]>++ .<+++ +++++ +[->- ----- ---<] >---. <++++
    ++++[ ->+++ +++++ <]>++ +++++ +++++ +++.+ +++++ .-.<+ +++++ ++[-> -----
    ---<] >---- --.<

    Spoiler: show
    Oh wow that would be so awesome to see interviewers looking at it and becoming uncomfortable, assuming I get that far, or assuming HR or equivalent doesn't strip it out.

  12. #12
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    Write an interpreter, since then it's a little more manageable. Of course, then you might also want to try writing something to reverse it back into something readable. That'd be about the only serious thing with brainfuck you could do lol. Just writing the interpreter will flex your brain-muscles quite a bit if you've never done that sort of programming before. Your brain's gotta get huge somehow. Huge brain means huge guts, grep and tag!

  13. #13
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    @Darus: That is pretty good advice. I'll look into that.

    Also off question, but anyone know of any good IDEs? Thought if I'm going to start looking for a job I should get my online portfolio/resume updated, but I lost all the source material for my site when my thumb drive died.

  14. #14

    IDE changes depending on language/tools/frameworks/etc you're using. Emacs/vim are universal, Eclipse is near universal. But beyond that, just get comfortable with a code text editor period.

  15. #15
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Err I meant HTML IDEs, wanted something like DW that didn't suck for some of the more annoying aspects of HTML (DOCTYPE declarations and whatnot). Gotta quit trying to post on my S4.

  16. #16

    Oh, honesty I think they all suck. I use brackets, but it's nothing special.

  17. #17
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Can't blame you. Only one I used was DreamWeaver and that was enough to turn me off to using only Notepad++. Only reason I was thinking of them was for some of the annoying crap like DOCTYPE declarations and classid parameters. Granted I doubt I'll use the former since I know it's depreciated and replaced with something less annoying in HTML5, but you never know considering how random people's browser versions can be.

  18. #18
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    Err I meant HTML IDEs, wanted something like DW that didn't suck for some of the more annoying aspects of HTML (DOCTYPE declarations and whatnot). Gotta quit trying to post on my S4.
    Sublime Text is well liked in our organization. Atom is a new text editor similar to Sublime developed by the GitHub guys. Both are probably pretty similar to Brackets, but I haven't used Brackets.

  19. #19
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Sounds good. I'll take a look at them later on. I mostly code HTML from scratch, but I don't mind shortcuts for a few things here and there.

  20. #20

    Yeah pretty much the same, I like some autocomplete and shortcuts, and that's the best any HTML IDE offers over notepad++/textwrangler. All the refactoring/visual help/hints/whatever are useless.

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