Sexist portrayals of women? What about men?

[Kuya]

So we've seen some debate over whether sexy portrayals of women are a bad thing and if they feed into stereotypes of women as only being valuable as sex objects. Usually part of the evidence presented for the existence of this sexy portrayal is the comparison between how women are portrayed and how men are portrayed. Take for example comic book heroes. This is usually called a double standard. But would people who criticize sexist portrayals of women be satiated if men were also portrayed in the same way? Or similarly, would men who enjoy sexy portrayals of women in barely there clothing be fine with men being portrayed in the same fashion?

As a male bisexual, i'm fine with women AND men being portrayed with gratuitous amounts of sex appeal. But i wanted to know whether the straight men in this forum are willing to compromise by allowing men to be portrayed just as sexily as women are. If anyone here is opposed to women being portrayed as sex objects, I also wanted to know how they would feel if the same treatment were extended to men. Would objectification be fine if it were done in equal amounts for men and women?

Here are some examples of what I mean



Table breaker:

Spoiler: show

http://www.newnownext.com/the-hawkey...exism/10/2014/

Note that I think men in comic books are already portrayed with some degree of sex appeal. Skin tight outfits are sexy, but what I'm asking here is if straight men are comfortable with increasing that sex appeal up 1000% and using even more revealing outfits, similar to how females are portrayed. How comfortable are you with more men in thongs appearing in your media?

[Makwa]

Sex appeal is fine when it's done humorously, in my opinion. Just doesn't have to be in every damn thing out there.
I don't know if I'd say "uncomfortable" but I really don't care for super-revealing outfits just because why would anyone wear that if they're dodging bullets and fighting evildoers?

[Penthesilea]

Why does sexuality and its portrayal always reference outfits? How many super heroes are slobs or skinny lanky fuckers? maybe 5%?

I think the women characters are visually sexualized the same amount as men, but with less character development it's more apparent?

[Arelian]

100% okay with guys wearing revealing outfits. I'm comfortable with my sexuality, so it doesn't bother me--and more skin for the people that wanna see it isn't gonna hurt me none.

[Xno Kappa]

Who are these non-sexualized male characters? As far as I know the average male doesn't walk around in skin tight outfits showing off their chiseled six pac abs and massive bulges.

[Gokku]

Who are these non-sexualized male characters? As far as I know the average male doesn't walk around in skin tight outfits showing off their chiseled six pac abs and massive bulges.

^ this , i never understood the notion the the ladys were more sexualized then the men when almost every male is over sexed as well.

uhh bruce banner might not make the cut but then the hulk overkills it?

[Odin'sLaw]

i'm fine with men been "over sexualized" but not to the point where their made to be over the top to "justify" a result, like that spiderman comic, he looks like ass and that's what puts me off, strip him off and put him in y fronts and i doubt i'd even notice anything was wrong

[Cream Soda]

[Outlaw]

Straight male. It doesn't bother me in fact it probably should be done more to appeal to women.

I'm more concerned about men being portrayed as caveman types.

[Ziero]

I actually had a similar argument with my girlfriend regarding professional wrestling. She was bothered by how all the females were running around in "skimpy" outfits and "flaunting" their sexuality...while laughing at how men run around in "speedos". That said, to me there isn't a double standard about this kind of thing, rather it's more of a quadruple standard. The biggest problem I've noticed about this whole issue is that while skimpy costumes on women may be enough to entice men, skimpy costumes on men doesn't seem to have the same effect on women.

Personally, I don't care if men are just as "sexualized" as women in media, I just prefer that kind of stuff not to get in the way of a good story.

[Ksandra]

I know I am not the target of your question but I thought I'd post this incase you haven't seen it kuya:



I know maddox isn't for everyone, but I DO think he makes a valid point (that semi-addresses your topic) in that the pose that people were so upset about in regards to spiderwoman was a pose spiderman has been drawn in over and over again, on top of being spread eagled n' such in other drawings.

I do think male comic book characters are sexualized in a different manner. Rather than skimpy clothing, it is tight clothing stretched over more pecks than humanly possible.


For me, in regards to real world photos: if the party in question enjoys it and isn't doing it under duress or pressure or the feel the need to conform, more power to them.

In regards to drawings: I think if the subject matter in question isn't to degrade said character and just part of the artist's design I don't take much issue with it either.

This goes for both males and females alike.

[Salodin]

You know what really grinds my gears? When I see women cry over sexualized portrayal of women in media but then run to the next Channing Tat-yum movie because his abs make another appearance.

[Ksandra]

I actually don't know if men can ever be sexualized the same way as women. At least not by today's standards. What attracts a man to female figures is vastly different than what a attracts a woman to male figures.

While something like this is considered hot for a women by men:

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/117359..._underwear.jpg

This:

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/En...g.cm.61714.jpg

causes women to flat out go into hysterics.

I am actually curious how gays view this issue because while a gay male is also attracted to men, he was grown up knowing men's views on what makes a women "hot" and may apply that more to male figures than a woman would. ie. I could see gay men finding the thong wrap a lot more sexually appealing than women do.

[Kuya]

I personally find that thong wrap appealing (the fact that the guy has to have a good body in the first place is a given), but i think it has less to do with gay or bi men applying what they've " learned" about how they're "supposed" to like women, and has more to do with the fact that men are more visual, supposedly. Despite that, I've met women who are more into seeing men in skimpy clothing than others, while i've also met women who prefer gay porn over straight porn. While I can say most gay and bi men would happily accept dudes in thongs, i'm not so sure about women.

With that in mind, some posters are speaking as if men like chicks in skimpy clothing and women don't like men in skimpy clothing thus everything's fine. I'd like to remind these posters there is such a thing as gay and bisexual men and they deserve to have male eye candy just as much as the heterosexual men deserve their female eye candy.

[Kuya]

There might be some cultural baggage in this as well. I think european women differ from american women in terms of how much skin they want to see from a man. At least, if bathing suits are any indication. But i'd rather more women from europe come into this thread and tell us what they think.

[RKenshin]

I don't see the 'sexist/unrealistic standards of beauty or body/sexualized female lead' issues as any different from how the male leads in most of the same venues (whether video games, comic books, or movies) are also often unrealistically chizzled, ripped/jacked, manly hunks of handsome man meat.

I think the bigger issue at play is more of a culture/society thing, where as a women sees this and are more likely to compare or think less of themselves or judge themselves by it... where as for men it's practically tuned out. And that's despite, in my opinion, the male standards often being far more unrealistic (staying thin vs putting on 50lb of muscle?!).

And this applies for far more than just video games and the like - it's the same for magazines, fashion, beauty pagaents/competitions, etc.

So again, the issue isn't so much exclusive to video games/entertainment to me as much as it's a far bigger/broader thing at play here.

[Ksandra]

There might be some cultural baggage in this as well. I think european women differ from american women in terms of how much skin they want to see from a man. At least, if bathing suits are any indication. But i'd rather more women from europe come into this thread and tell us what they think.

this is also very true. I think the male thong is a lot more commonplace in places like europe.

[Isiolia]

^ this , i never understood the notion the the ladys were more sexualized then the men when almost every male is over sexed as well.

uhh bruce banner might not make the cut but then the hulk overkills it?

Visual language and fantasy. Both male and female character are exaggerated, but it's a matter of how and why.

Consider fiction in general, or maybe stuff that's targeted at an audience. If you pick up a Young Adult book, most likely, it'll be a teenager that'll save the day. They'll probably be awkward, and misunderstood, but ultimately have some special knowledge or ability. That's something that can resonate with the intended audience.

So, sure, most characters in comics are exaggerated from reality. The thing is, arguably, most of the male characters are done in a way to make them who the presumed readership wants to be. Or, at least, in a way that exemplifies aspects of their character - the Hulk is a giant green (usually) rage monster. His character design underscores that. Meanwhile, female characters are often exaggerated in ways that make them attractive. She-hulk may be strong, but she'll always look good in a bikini and have great hair, right?

To a fair point, that's fine. A comic filled with guys you'd want to be, and women you'd want to be with will sell to a certain audience...just like a book series about vampires and werewolves inexplicably fawning over a teen girl will sell to another. It's when it's the norm for a medium that it's a problem, which is where I think the complaint lies.

Turning it back to the original topic, personally, I'm not that interested in seeing dudes in thongs or whatnot in comics. I don't mean that it's something to protest, just, it's not a selling point to me. Take it too far, and I'll just read something else. I'd rather see better written/dressed female characters too though.

[Quixon]

This a pretty complex topic, I've had about 3-4 different replies thought up in my head... then I think of something else and change my mind. Allow me to ramble a little, comment on what you would like:

-Companies are going to do everything they legally can to make money. Women are portrayed the way they are because it sells. Men are portrayed the way they are.... because it sells. Would I have an issue with a "sexualized" male character... not particularly if it doesn't get in the way of the story.

-With that being said, the picture Kuya referenced in the first post is not what I would think would sell a video game/comic/etc to the majority of that genres female base. I would think the gay/bisexual community would consider that Sexualized, whether that would push them to buy said product..... I don't know. Slightly prejudice, possibly. But that's just my observation from the gay/bisexual dudes I know, and the women I know. Most women I know would enjoy a bit more toned down less in your face "sexualized" male character. Basically throwing a banana hammock in their face is not their idea of sexy. Throwing a massive set of tits or a fat ass in a dudes face is their idea of sexy. Again speaking in large majorities here, as the companies producing this media want to apply to the largest amount of people they can.


-Would I play a game where the main character was a dude rocking a thong? Probably not, and I would be lead to believe the majority of males would not buy that game. It simply does not appeal to the majority of males, if it doesn't appeal to them, it won't sell.

-Would I buy a game where the main characters were a ripped tatted dude in a loin cloth and/or a female resembling the photo in the OP. Yeah why not. You can sexualize a character without be gratuitous I guess you could say. The limits on "what is gratuitous" is different for everyone, so the company is of course going to tailor that to the appeal to the majority.

[notorious bum]

This might be worth watching, I saw the first 30mins or so, then got really irritated after hearing commentary about why Hitlery lost to Obama(hint: it wasn't because she was too progressive lol). The first few minutes seem relevant enough, though. I.e. Hollywood is still a sexist cesspool, to go along with the decline in overall quality of scriptwriting/casting/directing/etc.