The Final Coil: Yoshi P mentioned T11 was going to be the "gear check" as t8 was though

[Deadgye]

You guys do it very differently from other groups - maybe one of these factors is causing the problem?
-- All charge/soakers and nonsoakers stacked near charged target.
-- Tanking the boss where it ends up charged instead of moving it.
-- Having the tank in melee range after he's finished charging (I think I've seen other groups do this), or very close to his frontal hitbox so minimal turning for him.
-- First group I've seen War MT/PLD OT (shouldn't make a diff I think, have you ever seen it happen when WAR was provoking off MT?)
-- I can't really see the provoke timing - don't think this makes a differnece
Is there a possibility the offtank is getting hit by someone else's heat lightning?

We have the tank taking charge basically in melee range for charge now since I switched to nin (we thought distance from charge correlated to damage taken back then). So it's not this.
The boss does crackle hiss before he moves after a charge in the second phase, so where he's tanked shouldn't affect anything.
War MT/Pld MT same stuff, we had Pld MT our first day or two of attempts.
Definitely not getting hit by someone else's heat lightning.

It could be the amount the boss turns... The boss might be a keyboard turner. In the video I watched after the charge the boss took his sweet ass time turning around 180 degrees before he crackle hissed. Whereas with us he's only turning 90 degrees. That difference in time would be the 0.5 seconds that results in other groups never seeing this happen, since like I said we only ever see this sometimes when the OT gets heat lightning last and vulnerability is basically at 0s left. To lend credit to this.. have you ever had the MT accidentally regain aggro during the charge due to dots or something? The boss will immediately crackle hiss right after the charge killing everyone he just hit.

I've seen this happen before. We just have the Warrior blow vengeance for the charge instead of potentially dealing with the spaghetti of vuln not falling off.

The PLD is the OT, so he's the one getting hissed, not the warrior. Besides hallowed (wherein he'd just take the charge instead of tank swapping), I don't see his cooldowns doing much against the 15k+ hit that you take with vulnerability.

[Taint]

It's probably the turn time like you said. That's the only thing that makes sense. We do the full 180 turn and have zero issues.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I will say this is a big reason why, as PLD OT, if I get tether or heat before charge in last phase I will HG that shit up to avoid a tank swap. We've never had this issue yet and I don't plan on introducing us to it.

I do think turning speed is definitely a factor; bosses get delayed rotations from having to follow after a target while being kited, so it's not unreasonable to think this could also be a factor.

[Deadgye]

We've never had it happen in final phase, but that lends more credit to the turning bs because we let it run back into the aoe it drops in that phase due to limited space. Well, glad we finally figured out why it's happening. I'll just have our pld hallowed the charge whenever he gets heat lightning last in the second phase.

I still say crackle hiss shouldn't even be allowed to come out until the vulnerabilities from heat lightning go away. That it can is bullshit.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I OT as WAR and we've yet to see this problem. Reason being we bank on a little luck. I will holmgang anytime I get heat when charge is coming. It has yet to happen more than once in the second phase or the last phase. Since Holmgang is three minutes can use it twice in the fight. Just hasn't happend to us for whatever reason. Makes it a lot easier to not have to swap or decrease the need to do it.

[Kirbyprime]

My co-tank apparently had this happen once. Personally haven't though.

[Oreth]

Hey Deadgye. Our group is made up like yours except the Summoner. We have since changed that over to BlackMage but this is our first kill video if you wanted to look. Not sure if it will help anymore than what the others have said just that its the same composition. Best of luck.

This is our WhiteMages video as well Carolyn Kujikawa

[Damane]

I am not sure if this is possible, in our T11 run today
one of our tanks got stunned and the other got immidietally the debuff. Which of course resulted in the death (cant do shit when stunned). I didnt think this mechanic could be split, but apearantly it can be split it between stun and the debuff resulting in insta wipe of tanks.
how is this even possible

[Taint]

I am not sure if this is possible, in our T11 run today
one of our tanks got stunned and the other got immidietally the debuff. Which of course resulted in the death (cant do shit when stunned). I didnt think this mechanic could be split, but apearantly it can be split it between stun and the debuff resulting in insta wipe of tanks.
how is this even possible

Hate swap from a BB or Halone right as head is going out. It's happened to my group lots of times.

During the first phase I stay in sword oath so the war always has hate except for when I provoke after he's stunned. Last phase I again let the WAR maintain hate and I stop using halone when head is about to come out.

[amadouche]

I am not sure if this is possible, in our T11 run today
one of our tanks got stunned and the other got immidietally the debuff. Which of course resulted in the death (cant do shit when stunned). I didnt think this mechanic could be split, but apearantly it can be split it between stun and the debuff resulting in insta wipe of tanks.
how is this even possible

He provoked the boss earlier than he should have.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Secondary head (Stun), Secondary head (Headlights, cast bar), and Main head can all hit separate targets. So yeah if hate is really tight, you can have hate toggle onto the unstunned person for Headlights and then you're fucked unless you can tell that quickly. That or voked too quickly.

Last phase I would do the opposite of above; let PLD "MT". First phase I do as Taint said though.

[Taint]

He provoked the boss earlier than he should have.

That can cause it as well. Any miss timed hate swap is the cause.

[HitomeOfBismarck]

T12 scholar MP and DPS questions.

When is a good time to attack?

Something important to note that you may or may not have noticed is that the bennu are affected by shadowflare's slow effect which is huge mitigation. To elaborate on what Uryuu told you:

Adlo both tanks before you engage. Swift > shadowflare. Throw DoTs and by the time you get DoTs on, first bennu will spawn. Bane onto it then aero. Pop out of cleric, put adlo on MT for revelation, and then pre-succor for blackfire initial damage. Hop into cleric stance after and reapply DoTs to Phoenix. By this time, blackfires are out so you can bane onto them.

I usually tell my DPS if my bane is weak or strong (based on if miasma landed or not). It should hit them all and be enough to kill them while your DPS focus on Phoenix. Uryuu sometimes uses fluid aura to get rid of any lingering fires or I tell my BRD/BLM to get on them.

In phase 2, it's a little more tight. I like to help Uryuu with purgatory damage so I'll pre-adlo both of us, adlo the revelation target, and then jump back into DPS. You can probably force most of the healing on the WHM while spotting lustrates during bennu sections.

In the add phase, I tend to favor shadowflare over soil for the same reason I listed above: a lot of mitigation. I will switch to soil when we are nearing 9+ stacks and there are only a couple bennu up. I don't DPS in the add phase but I'm sure you could do this without much worry in the beginning. Succor + whispering will cover the first set of rebirths.

It seems like you have the right idea from reading your post. You can push a lot of DPS in the last phase while letting your WHM cover most of the heals. If people don't cleave each other with birds, it's very easy/predictable healing. Have your fairy whispering dawn near the fountain and/or succor when you're not part of the order or however your group does it.

[Arthars]

provoke and inner beast at secondary head 50% charged

problem solved

[Damane]

provoke and inner beast at secondary head 50% charged

problem solved

thats not the problem. tanks never failed the swap until that shit happened out of the blue

i was just surprised that this was actually possible.

[Avarice]

I am not sure if this is possible, in our T11 run today
one of our tanks got stunned and the other got immidietally the debuff. Which of course resulted in the death (cant do shit when stunned). I didnt think this mechanic could be split, but apearantly it can be split it between stun and the debuff resulting in insta wipe of tanks.
how is this even possible

As other have said, if the swap happens too soon it can cause a problem. Alternatively, if both tanks are dangerously close to the same level of hate prior to the mechanic occurring (which happened for us quite frequently), it's possible for the stun to happen, then for Kaliya to switch on her own to the other tank and destroy them. To counteract that, we set it so the same person gets stunned every time. PLD will take the MT slot, so the stun will be on him. WAR provokes at the right time to do the Main Head hit, then PLD provokes it back afterwards; lets our WAR stick exclusively to rotating Path/Eye, and sticking in a BB where they feel they can without the other two falling off.

[Arthars]

you guys need to watch this -_-

http://www.twitch.tv/infernalos

i feel for the members getting yelled at, because they are stuck at phase 1-2 for 1 hour ish....... prolly just started to learn

i mean come on, they barely make the HP requirement really..... why yell at your teammates like that....

[bokchoykn]

provoke and inner beast at secondary head 50% charged

problem solved

Yup! This is what I do. The Inner Beast also covers the ensuing Resonance too.

you guys need to watch this -_-

http://www.twitch.tv/infernalos

i feel for the members getting yelled at, because they are stuck at phase 1-2 for 1 hour ish....... prolly just started to learn

i mean come on, they barely make the HP requirement really..... why yell at your teammates like that....

LOL wow.

Relevant FC name: "Angered".

[Ratatapa]

Did he mute his stream? not hearing any sound, but youtube and all my other stuff works

[Grey Jorildyn]

You can actually have inner beast up for every resonance except 2 which you can cover with vengeance for one and thrill of battle for the other.