Rogue/Ninja Discussion

[Obsidian]

483 T8
520 Dummy parse for 3 minutes. He doesn't even have a WAR to do Storm's Path for him. The dummy also doesn't have Foe's to bump the Ninjutsu damage.
Parser result from dummy video.

[SamanosukeShiva]

still not 500 on progression fight, dummy damage means nothing

[Spider-Dan]

There's no way it won't be. It's got the potency of DRG with the attack speed of MNK, and none of the positional bullshit of either. And it benefits from Requiem.

They're either going to have to nerf some of the potencies or buff MNK and DRG, again.

NIN should get a nerf around 2.45, maybe 2.5. For now, it makes sense for them to be intentionally overpowered so as to catch up the population numbers.

As it is, NIN pretty much obsoletes both MNK and DRG. Either they add slashing bonus to the mob or benefit from the tank's, 10% damage bonus for everyone 1/6th of the time, free TP boosts with no damage penalty (unlike BRD), no real positional requirements, no GL to babysit, and top-tier DPS to go with it all? Why bring any other melee?

[Obsidian]

Show me a MNK parse over 500 on a "progression" fight that isn't Turn 8. Hell, show me a 520 dummy parse on MNK with an i110 weapon.

[Alistaire]

still not 500 on progression fight, dummy damage means nothing

Not only does it not mean nothing, it pretty much means everything. It's the only even measuring stick for determining a job's raw value. Don't need to tell people it's a melee so it'll have the issues melee have, that's common sense by now. Whatever mechanics in whatever fight affect a melee's dps will affect nin as much as drg or mnk.

Except less actually because of the enhanced movement speed.

[Niiro]

Before I even hit 50 on NIN I said to myself "wonder what they're gonna nerf".

As I said before tho, it's not so much about NIN being too strong, it's more about MNK and DRG (see: DRG) not being worth the trouble or simply not being able to put out the numbers necessary to justify their inherent liability (again, this applies far more to DRG than to MNK, but still).

Semi-related: do we know if ACT can accurately parse NIN damage yet? I remember someone mentioning that the values for their DoTs weren't yet valued correctly, there have been a handful of updates since 2.4 tho.

[Obsidian]

Most recent plugin update fixed the issues with Mutilate and Shadow-whatever, I believe. As far as I know everything is tracked as correctly as it can be now.

[Seravi Edalborez]

If we don't see nerfs "just because" NIN has clearcut advantages over MNK/DRG, we will definitely see tweaks to Trick Attack when/if people start doing NINburns. More uptime on TA is going to be pretty bonkers, and will absolutely merit a Virus-style Antibody-thing treatment. I'm more surprised it didn't have this restriction to begin with.

I don't know if I'd even call that a nerf to NINburn though since you could just have one NIN TA and the other 3-6 NINs to perfect dodge > SA.

[Niiro]

Anyone know how to set a macro to the hotbar with a text command?

I know the syntax for normal skills is

/hotbar set "skill" [bar#] [slot#]

but idk how you'd specify a macro instead of a skill.

[Kaisha]

Can't set macros to the hotbar with a command unfortunately.

One work-around is to copy a whole hotbar instead that so happens to have the macros already placed on them.

[Niiro]

Bah, I'd considered that as an alternative, guess I'll have to.

Just makes it so unnecessarily convoluted since I'll have to have 2 template bars to copy off of to set to my main bar.

[Spider-Dan]

Just use hotbars from GLA or CNJ or something.

I have all my PvP hotbar swaps stored on FSH, then I have macros that copy the desired hotbar over the top of my existing one.

e.g. /chotbar copy FSH 4 SCH 1

[Elesirdur]

Got a roulette last night with 2xNIN in ~i55-i70 gear, a ~i100 SCH (and me, i93ish PLD) in Brayflox Hard and those NINs just obliterated the place. Not a hard dungeon by any means but certainly the fastest run I've had there.

As a PLD I find NINs easy to tank with; steady, single-target damage without any major spikes makes life easy. And they actually followed my marks!

[Kidzukai]

Wait til you party with geared ninjas. I will admit I go a little HAM sometimes but I push the threat line quite a bit in dungeons. With less ramp up time you're definitely more likely to pull hate than other classes.

[Niiro]

When you open the fight with a Hide->TA followed by a Raiton, hate isn't exactly steady.

[Arthars]

483 T8
520 Dummy parse for 3 minutes. He doesn't even have a WAR to do Storm's Path for him. The dummy also doesn't have Foe's to bump the Ninjutsu damage.
Parser result from dummy video.

no kidding,

i just did 493 with unmelded gears + 110 vajras on dummy in 3 mins

cant deny NIN is pretty OP now once your fingers get used to the clicking

1 thing tho i noticed is how fast ninjitsu can queue in housing area on dummy, and it has a little bit of delay in dungeons/raids....

[Sigmakan]

Random lag spikes can ruin ninjutsu. A few times in T10 I'd do the second mudra, animation goes off, cooldown icon completes, hit the third mudra and about the same time I get a "unable to execute action" for that second mudra. Resulting in Katon when I wanted Huton.

[Niiro]

The worst is when you use Kassetsu....the animation has to complete, then the mudra recast speeds to 0.

[Arthars]

well its the lvl 50 ability and we all know lvl 50 skillz has to look awesome before it can be used!

[Corrderio]

483 T8
520 Dummy parse for 3 minutes. He doesn't even have a WAR to do Storm's Path for him. The dummy also doesn't have Foe's to bump the Ninjutsu damage.
Parser result from dummy video.

Maybe I missed it, but is Sneak Attack used often? Or is Trick Attack far more effective in the long run to use?