December Job Adjustments

[scaevola]

I've already been finding Exenterator to be much better than Evisceration on high level enemies where dDEX is pretty crap. So that's really nice.

I am still so bitter about Exenterator's SC properties.

[Sechs]

I've already been finding Exenterator to be much better than Evisceration on high level enemies where dDEX is pretty crap.

Uh?
On what job? I'm a bit skeptic on unstacked Exenterator being better than other dagger WS options since after the WS reform patch.
Can you provide more data?

(I'm excited for the upcoming changes instead, altough Exenterator's SC properties do not really make me wet)

[Classikmage]

Uh?
On what job? I'm a bit skeptic on unstacked Exenterator being better than other dagger WS options since after the WS reform patch.
Can you provide more data?

(I'm excited for the upcoming changes instead, altough Exenterator's SC properties do not really make me wet)

Very situational, but stuff like Incursion or merit BC's, this is assuming of course SA and TA are both down, and won't be back up in time before you hit TP-overflow, which is still kind of rare since you wanna have at least 1800 or higher for Rudra's when they are available. But if you have to blow TP w/o SA or TA, better to use Exenterator over Evisceration on things like that.

[Sechs]

Yes uh, you gave me your opinion which I respect and apreciate.
I don't want to sound rude, but I was looking for more mathy stuff I guess.

It's not like I was completely ruling out the chance of Exenterator being better than other Dagger WS in a couple of situations, but at first thought it seemed unexpected. Not impossible though.
But without data we're left to wonder if it's your unaware bias or if it's really like that.

[Ihina]

Eye balling makes everything possible.

[Magnus7775]

I mean I wouldn't expect a shifting zeitgeist, but SMN adjustments at minimum should pique most peoples' interests

Y'all too picky

I actually am pretty excited about more pet food. I just wish I could get more excited about the WS changes.

like seriously wtf is the "initial rank" of a weapon skill? The best theories for what they mean so far all take "initial rank" to mean "first hit"...and as confusing/misleading as that is, they very well may be right!

[Bukadan]

pets need a hydra kofte <3

[Kincard]

The best theories for what they mean so far all take "initial rank" to mean "first hit"

That is the correct translation, yes.

Whoever translated it probably doesn't play the game. I still don't know why they translated 段 as "rank" given the context though, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[dasva]

Yes uh, you gave me your opinion which I respect and apreciate.
I don't want to sound rude, but I was looking for more mathy stuff I guess.

It's not like I was completely ruling out the chance of Exenterator being better than other Dagger WS in a couple of situations, but at first thought it seemed unexpected. Not impossible though.
But without data we're left to wonder if it's your unaware bias or if it's really like that.

Yes uh, you gave me your opinion which I respect and apreciate.
I don't want to sound rude, but I was looking for more mathy stuff I guess.

It's not like I was completely ruling out the chance of Exenterator being better than other Dagger WS in a couple of situations, but at first thought it seemed unexpected. Not impossible though.
But without data we're left to wonder if it's your unaware bias or if it's really like that.

Kinda with you on that. Eyeballing is fairly fail. Very basic math with random gear looked up (not actually optimal sets but just to get a ballpark figure) assuming 0 fstr since he was talking about mobs high enough that your dDex blows evisceration would have a base dmg of 248 and assuming just 6 hits 6.0 ftp while exe would have 351 and assuming just 5 hits 5.0 ftp.

That would give exe about a 18% lead assuming 0 crits. But assuming a high mob that puts your cRatio down into say 1.5 a single crit hit would increase eviscerations dmg by a good 20%. And even if you assume only the first hit gets a crit rate bonus from the ws and floored dDEX you should still have around at least 20% crit rate on hits after the first and at least 30% on the first which puts getting 0/6 hits to crit pretty unlikely.

So very ballparking but looks like they would usually be close but evisceration should still pull higher. Granted exe has higher potential increase in ftp but evis also could easily get multiple crits. And of course if you play multiple jobs and aren't fully meriting Exe it's dmg drops a decent bit as well. Honestly can't see meriting it if you have at least 3 other merit ws you want. And if we assume that the crit rate isn't being applied to hits after the first and this update is fixing that and boosting potency evisceration should increase greatly probably even more than exetenator will

[dasva]

stupid double

[Sechs]

Yeah just my thoughts.
I remember Byrth and Mote tests after the WS reform patch hit, and I also remember the short tests I did on spreadsheet, and I don't remember any noticeable situation putting unstacked Exenterator above the other dagger options.
I remember the gap sometimes getting smaller, but Exenterator was still behind.
Well I only tested it for DNC and BRD though, truth be said.

This new patch might make things more interesting, but then again this same patch is buffing Rudra's Storm twice, so even if Exenterator gets on par/above Evisceration, chances are Rudra's Storm will still be above even at 1000 TP (even without Moonshade).
And Evisceration will likely still remain the option of choice when you need a WS that doesn't debuff the enemy (both Rudra and Exenterator do)

Speaking of the upcoming patch, I'm more looking forward to the Katana WS buffs. Katana really needs a good buff, the current WSs are severely lackluster and Hi is the only remotely useful one, but still too unreliable.
Blade: Shun has potential but it's getting a "single" buff in the patch so I'm not holding my breath too much (maybe if they removed the attack penalty and changed the TP effect to "damage changes with TP" but it seems that's not happening). Blade: Ku on the other hand could provide interesting results I suppose.

[FaeQueenCory]

The thing is, if it's just something as simple as ACC bonus being translated across all hits instead of just the first, why exclude so many of the adjusted 1h WSs?

So much this.
It wouldn't really be unbalance to have all multihit WSs carry through their acc bonuses...
But it kinda is unbalanced to exclude such an update for 2h as well as 1h. (Scythe DRKs are crying in the corner.)

Which is why I'm in the ƒTP/WS% bonus camp.
Since those two things have traditionally only been on the first hit. (Plus it would make their new WS ring more desirable than the "meh" it is right now.)

Plus if it was the acc, why wouldn't they just say "accuracy bonus"?
They said that with the previous overhaul.

[Classikmage]

Weapon skills
- Increase the power of certain weapon skills
- Increase the TP bonus for certain weapon skills
- Adjustments so that certain weapon skills that had bonuses applied to only the first hit will have the bonus applied to all hits.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/45316

The bolded sounds like a better translation, the way that one is translated sounds like the opinion some people presented earlier. The bonus the multi-hit WS's get with extra TP. So Accuracy for Dancing Edge, Attack for Exenterator, Critical Hit Rate on Evisceration, etc?

[Byrthnoth]

That's already how it worked.

Also, Exenterator isn't an Attack TP mod. It's additional effect duration.

[darkhorror]

My guess is that the fTP bonus is going to carry over to all hits, since all of those are multihit weapon skills where damage doesn't vary with tp. Also I don't think any of them have fTP bonus carrying over yet.

[Trumpy]

So does this mean the elemental belts/gorgets will be more beneficial to other WSes like they are for merited WSes?

[Byrthnoth]

If it actually replicates fTP, they will be essential for every WS that's getting adjusted like that.

That would not be a minor change, though. It would be a worldcrushing "my dancer is now an evasive samurai with shadows and Fan Dance" adjustment.

[dasva]

My guess is that the fTP bonus is going to carry over to all hits, since all of those are multihit weapon skills where damage doesn't vary with tp. Also I don't think any of them have fTP bonus carrying over yet.

Bonus seems like an odd term though to use for ftp on ws that had static ftps. idk se is being strange

[Fwahm]

Perhaps they're talking about the very large accuracy bonus that the first hit of most WSs have being applied to all hits.

[Damane]

If it actually replicates fTP, they will be essential for every WS that's getting adjusted like that.

That would not be a minor change, though. It would be a worldcrushing "my dancer is now an evasive samurai with shadows and Fan Dance" adjustment.

thats good time to crush some bandwagon sams. but i doubt it happens, the crys woudl be delicious and BLU DNC would apear at the top all of the sudden, just by the amount of Dmg and versatility they offer.