1. FFXIV Reset Timers
    Last daily reset was 22 hours, 23 minutes ago / Next daily reset is in 1 hours, 36 minutes
    Last weekly reset was 1 days, 15 hours, 23 minutes ago / Next weekly reset is in 4 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes
+ Reply to Thread
Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 9 17 18 19 20 21 ... LastLast
Results 361 to 380 of 431

Thread: Patch 2.5 Notes     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #361

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    OK at this point you're just proving that you either can't read or are just extremely stupid and I can't tell which it is but either way you're wrong.

    How can you say it doesn't function like it does in 1.0 then say right afterwards that the concept is the same (when 1.0 had TP as well?!) They aren't the same concept if you can use both of them simultaneously. If you want to say similar you can, because you can find similarities but that's already been covered so how about you start reading the thread?
    1.0's original default attacks were similar to 2.0's GCD, stamina was used for regular attacks and regenerated at a rate that was similar to waiting for the GCD.

    1.0's original stamina bar was similar to 2.0's TP in that they are were both passively regenerating resources that regulated your attacks.

    Stamina was a short-term limiting factor used for basic attacks (GCD) and TP was an accumulated reserve that you spent on more powerful attacks with additional effects.

    There isn't really anything analogous to 1.0's TP-WS system in 2.0, everything is boiled down to GCD with TP acting as a much longer lasting, slower regenerating stamina bar.

  2. #362
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,373
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    i'm pretty sure i hated doctor mog in 1.0 too but prob to a lesser degree

  3. #363
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    20,324
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Lord Longhaft
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Cerberus
    WoW Realm
    Mug'thol

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    is it wrong to hate someone on the internet
    is it wrong to hate someone for no reason
    is it wrong to combine the two

    if the answer is yes you're a fucking liar
    Life's too short to spend time hating, baby!

  4. #364
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,373
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    You mean "Life's too short to stop hating"

  5. #365

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    1.0's original default attacks were similar to 2.0's GCD, stamina was used for regular attacks and regenerated at a rate that was similar to waiting for the GCD.

    1.0's original stamina bar was similar to 2.0's TP in that they are were both passively regenerating resources that regulated your attacks.

    Stamina was a short-term limiting factor used for basic attacks (GCD) and TP was an accumulated reserve that you spent on more powerful attacks with additional effects.

    There isn't really anything analogous to 1.0's TP-WS system in 2.0, everything is boiled down to GCD with TP acting as a much longer lasting, slower regenerating stamina bar.
    After your recent stint I'm not surprised by this.

    Stamina: Used for every action you took, basic attacks that were required to gain TP or cause various debuff effects took stamina, abilities like second wind took stamina, weapon skills took stamina and TP, magic took stamina and MP (hell some took HP).
    TP: A resource used for weapon skills
    MP: A resource used for magic
    HP: A potential resource for abilities, magic, skills (if abilities were linked to HP like in Persona would you say that HP is a stamina bar? lol)
    GCD: The time before taking another action
    Abilities: Not linked to any of the above
    Commands/Orders: ^ Same

    If TP was really like stamina then what the fuck is MP. Mage stamina? Why doesn't my TP stamina go down when I use abilities or mage actions or basic attacks? Answer, because stamina is not TP, it's stamina. You can say a lot of things are like things, but they are not those things.

  6. #366
    Cake Mix
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    30,342
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Cakey Yama
    FFXIV Server
    Leviathan
    FFXI Server
    Unicorn

    Mr. Happy's guides are not only extremely convoluted, but rather boring in general, and as a person, he's sort of a giant douchebag, so that is why I do not like him. I appreciate he takes time out of his day to make content and shit for the community, but I do not have to like or respect him.

  7. #367
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    20,324
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Lord Longhaft
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Cerberus
    WoW Realm
    Mug'thol

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    You mean "Life's too short to stop hating"
    Haha, get it all out before you die, I guess.

  8. #368
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,351
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Kirby Prime
    FFXIV Server
    Hyperion

    While I hate Mr.Happy as much as the next person, he is still one of the faster people to push out a video on turn mechanics. The strategies for how to counter them tend to be shit, but it's still a useful reference as to what to expect when you go in. Most annoying thing about his vids is that pugs treat them as a bible when coil opens up and laughs at anyone that does it different ( aka better ).

  9. #369
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,687
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Viper Beam
    FFXIV Server
    Balmung
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Has anyone actually outright said that XI was a failure? Or are you just reading into that from saying shit like XI and 1.0 had more style than substance or people saying they don't like the game/mechanics in it?
    I am actually "reading into that" based on statements like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    XI was a twisted game that looked good but played like shit.
    But in fairness, you said that almost a day ago, so I can see why it would slip your mind.

    I don't get how some people view simplicity and complexity when their idea of complex gameplay isn't how the game controls but how many skills from other classes you can use?
    More specifically, I view complexity in the prism of choices available to you. ARR is on strict rails; the gear selection is always very straightforward and black/white, the cross-classing is even more so.

    As for getting rid of the good parts of 1.0, can we get a list of what is so good that it's necessary in ARR?
    Much of 1.0 wouldn't really work in 2.0's battle system anyway, as it has been designed around completely different mechanics. I'm not saying that they should reintroduce those things now, I'm saying that it's a shame that the system wasn't designed in a way that could have kept them.

    However, the cross-class thing is a separate issue. They could make cross-classing quite viable, but they actively choose not to and, in fact, have intentionally nerfed classes so as to make sure that off-rail cross-classing is not widespread; e.g. THM losing Cleric Stance from beta3 to beta4 (or ACN never getting it in the first place), or all classes (but not jobs) receiving a global damage nerf in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    That has nothing to do with the comment you responded to. You incorrectly assumed that I was referring to XI there, which I was not.
    No, I said that your "revenue proves quality" theory is never applied to XI, and you're trying to sidestep by saying "I didn't say it did" (even though you don't deny that you think it doesn't apply to XI).

    Trying to directly compare 2003 MMO sales/subs to 2013 is hilarious. XI's sales/subs at the time were at least as good, relative to the market, as ARR's are now. So the sales argument you just made for XIV would logically prove that XI was at least as good of a game.

  10. #370

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I am actually "reading into that" based on statements like this:

    But in fairness, you said that almost a day ago, so I can see why it would slip your mind.
    I said it a day ago, I've said it a year ago, I've said it plenty of times (I said it plenty of times while actively playing XI) but I've never said that XI was a failure. That's like saying Football Manager is a failure because it's an awful game. It is awful, it's the worst, but it's not a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    If you don't think bad games can be successful then that's your thing, but that's basically all it is.
    To clarify, I think XI is still a pretty bad game in terms of just raw gameplay (I don't know how I found it fun because it really isn't my thing) but it has good points and I still love it despite never wanting to play it again or see any mechanics resurface. I guess that can be pretty confusing.

  11. #371
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,687
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Viper Beam
    FFXIV Server
    Balmung
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    If "bad games can still be successful," the revenue = quality argument for ARR disappears in a puff of smoke.

  12. #372

    Err...I guess? I don't exactly have any stock in that conversation though so I don't really care what conclusions my posts lead you to.

  13. #373
    Nidhogg
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,746
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Diabolos

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    I said it a day ago, I've said it a year ago, I've said it plenty of times (I said it plenty of times while actively playing XI) but I've never said that XI was a failure. That's like saying Football Manager is a failure because it's an awful game. It is awful, it's the worst, but it's not a failure.

    To clarify, I think XI is still a pretty bad game in terms of just raw gameplay (I don't know how I found it fun because it really isn't my thing) but it has good points and I still love it despite never wanting to play it again or see any mechanics resurface. I guess that can be pretty confusing.
    My FFXI is not a failure. It may easy, unbalanced, outdated, a failure, but it is *not* a porno.

  14. #374

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    If TP was really like stamina then what the fuck is MP. Mage stamina? Why doesn't my TP stamina go down when I use abilities or mage actions or basic attacks? Answer, because stamina is not TP, it's stamina. You can say a lot of things are like things, but they are not those things.
    It's not, it's why I pointed out similarities and not equivalencies. I even said in plain English there is no equivalence to 1.0s TP-WS dynamic in 2.0. I don't know what you think I'm arguing, the topic of 1.0s old stamina system came up and I was just observing some of the similarities from old 1.0 and 2.0.

    1.0 stamina is similar to 2.0's GCD, short term limiting factor for general action frequency.

    2.0's TP is similar to 1.0's stamina in that they are passively regenerating resources, but 2.0's TP is on a much longer time frame and the result does not function in quite the same way, it's also not used for casters aside from sprint (which shouldn't cost TP and just have a recast, but that's an unrelated complaint).

    There is no normal mechanic equivalent to 1.0s TP in 2.0, the closest thing is Wrath (a resource accumulated by executing attacks and spent on special skills).

    For casters Stamina was, again, similar to the GCD. You needed Stamina to act, it was a short term regerating resource that limited how frequently you acted. MP in 1.0 was.....MP, you had it, you used it, you had ways of recovering it, I'm not sure what's confusing about that. 2.0's MP works in pretty much the same way for everyone but BLM for obvious reasons.

  15. #375

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    It's not, it's why I pointed out similarities and not equivalencies. I even said in plain English there is no equivalence to 1.0s TP-WS dynamic in 2.0. I don't know what you think I'm arguing, the topic of 1.0s old stamina system came up and I was just observing some of the similarities from old 1.0 and 2.0.

    1.0 stamina is similar to 2.0's GCD, short term limiting factor for general action frequency.

    2.0's TP is similar to 1.0's stamina in that they are passively regenerating resources, but 2.0's TP is on a much longer time frame and the result does not function in quite the same way, it's also not used for casters aside from sprint (which shouldn't cost TP and just have a recast, but that's an unrelated complaint).

    There is no normal mechanic equivalent to 1.0s TP in 2.0, the closest thing is Wrath (a resource accumulated by executing attacks and spent on special skills).

    For casters Stamina was, again, similar to the GCD. You needed Stamina to act, it was a short term regerating resource that limited how frequently you acted. MP in 1.0 was.....MP, you had it, you used it, you had ways of recovering it, I'm not sure what's confusing about that. 2.0's MP works in pretty much the same way for everyone but BLM for obvious reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    You can say a lot of things are like things, but they are not those things.
    You even quoted it please stop. I've already gone over everything so if there's something you're still not sure just refer to an earlier post where I said the same thing.

  16. #376
    Old Odin
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    6,197
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Seravi Edalborez
    FFXIV Server
    Hyperion
    FFXI Server
    Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    While they both control pace to a certain degree you can't force a GCD system to be faster than it is, whereas with stamina you can burn it all in 3 seconds and have to wait for 10 or you can pace yourself. People need to realise that stamina is it's own concept and not interchangeable with GCDs or point systems.

    Stamina combat and GCD combat aren't bad, but 1.0's combat (like Seravi said) was unpolished and lacking in just about everything. Good ideas don't mean shit when executed poorly.
    Late but this is what I meant by not minding the stamina bar. The ATB fill rate was shit and server lag made it clunky but I think the idea could have survived. It's not a hell of a lot of choice but it meant you could pace yourself when cooldowns were down and go nuts when up. For how little it mattered.

    Assuming a world where server delay wasn't awful and maybe the stamina metric was more generous (bigger bar or less cost on abilities), could have been ok. I would guess the main reason it was scrapped is that nobody wanted to pay attention to that many things (TP MP Stamina Recasts and I guess Battle Regimen)

    I like to pretend im playing that system when TP starved waiting on FoF.

  17. #377
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    11,993
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Sho Ryuuken
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    i wanna go on record and say i dont give a shit about mr happy making guides i just think he's a giant tool is that so wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    is it wrong to hate someone on the internet
    is it wrong to hate someone for no reason
    is it wrong to combine the two

    if the answer is yes you're a fucking liar
    It's fine, he is indeed a tool and full of himself. You can be a content creator and still be a complete dickbag. I'm also 100% certain any one knowledgeable person from BG could do what he does waaaay better and be excessively more popular to boot. It is what it is however; it's only him and Mizzteq for the most part doing this extensively.

    IMO, we should just hold a BG talk show and/or wiki. Just sayin.

  18. #378

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    You even quoted it please stop. I've already gone over everything so if there's something you're still not sure just refer to an earlier post where I said the same thing.
    You're making a counter argument to..... a handful of general observations and getting upset about it.

    I don't know what your point is other than disagreeing about some retrospective musings that I found interesting while trying to be a massive cunt about it?

  19. #379
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    17,291
    BG Level
    9

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    IMO, we should just hold a BG talk show and/or wiki. Just sayin.
    I second this

  20. #380
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,687
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Viper Beam
    FFXIV Server
    Balmung
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    Late but this is what I meant by not minding the stamina bar. The ATB fill rate was shit and server lag made it clunky but I think the idea could have survived. It's not a hell of a lot of choice but it meant you could pace yourself when cooldowns were down and go nuts when up. For how little it mattered.

    Assuming a world where server delay wasn't awful and maybe the stamina metric was more generous (bigger bar or less cost on abilities), could have been ok. I would guess the main reason it was scrapped is that nobody wanted to pay attention to that many things (TP MP Stamina Recasts and I guess Battle Regimen)
    Again, if you fixed the other problems with the game (server-side UI, dumb exp system, idiotic market wards) I don't think the underlying battle system was bad (except Battle Regimen, which was not explained well). I really liked the Guard system and the tradeoff between shields with more Sentinel skill uptime vs. shields with better block rates.

Similar Threads

  1. Patch 1.18a Notes
    By Lucienne in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 2011-08-10, 06:14
  2. Patch 1.18 Notes (07/21/2011)
    By Kurokikaze in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 453
    Last Post: 2011-08-02, 18:06
  3. Patch 1.17c Notes
    By Grey Jorildyn in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 2011-06-18, 00:40
  4. Patch 1.17b Notes
    By Grey Jorildyn in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: 2011-05-30, 04:59
  5. Patch 1.17a Notes (04/25/2011)
    By Kurokikaze in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 2011-04-27, 14:10
  6. Patch 1.17 Notes (04/14/2011)
    By Kurokikaze in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 199
    Last Post: 2011-04-25, 15:12
  7. Patch 1.16 Notes (03/03/2011)
    By Kurokikaze in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: 2011-03-08, 18:22
  8. Patch 1.15b Notes (02/17/2011)
    By Corrderio in forum FFXIV: Official News and Information
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 2011-02-19, 08:53