Footwork Discussion

[urat]

So with the new Job points and new +85 base damage feet, how does footwork math out?

With +10 base dmg from JP, +18 from footwork, +85 from feet, and +5 from calcitrant stole, we're sitting at a ripe +118, on par with quite a few other weapon's base dmg.

However, we can run the +242 hth skill weapons, getting us maximum damage.

So, here's what I wonder.

#1: Do you only need to macro in/off Tantra feet+2 for the attack boost for footwork, or would one need to keep it on to get it (which makes it useless)

#2: Does the +15% attack boost from footwork make up for the +100ish delay?

#3: Has anyone tested how the new +dmg augments play with kick attacks? Se may have fucked it up.

#4: How viable is this build considering we can run with +300 save tp if the above is null on Ohrmaz?

[darkhorror]

So with the new Job points and new +85 base damage feet, how does footwork math out?

With +10 base dmg from JP, +18 from footwork, +85 from feet, and +5 from calcitrant stole, we're sitting at a ripe +118, on par with quite a few other weapon's base dmg.

However, we can run the +242 hth skill weapons, getting us maximum damage.

So, here's what I wonder.

#1: Do you only need to macro in/off Tantra feet+2 for the attack boost for footwork, or would one need to keep it on to get it (which makes it useless)

#2: Does the +15% attack boost from footwork make up for the +100ish delay?

#3: Has anyone tested how the new +dmg augments play with kick attacks? Se may have fucked it up.

#4: How viable is this build considering we can run with +300 save tp if the above is null on Ohrmaz?

The next update may very well change things for the better if you want to attempt using footwork.

#1 just wait for next update when there is the Emp Armor update.

#2 no, 15% will not make up for the extra delay.

#3 I have not

#4 Save TP will have little to no effect on footwork since footwork gets full TP from two kicks along with the 1 tp from extra hits.

Good things that can help footwork, the full tp from two kicks on WS. Kick attacks work as a double attack, OAT weapon works on feet also( where as on weapon only adds single punch of attack round ). Get tp return from full 480 delay on kick so if you cap haste you martial arts doesn't hurt tp return on delay reduction cap. Footwork gives the enemy very little TP compared to H2H.

[dasva]

The delay difference wouldn't necessarily be that big. With oats and capped -delay your effective delay would be 115-116. With footwork and capped magic/gear haste it would be 150. If you could get some haste samba or maybe even that cor roll you might even be able to attack faster in terms of time between attack rounds

[Sechs]

Martial arts isn't active with Footwork up, it's a fixed delay. Unless I misunderstood you guys

[dasva]

That's what I was referring to them not sure about them.

[Ophannus]

Kinda makes me wonder what the point was. I thought it was to be competitive with 2h jobs but they never adjusted it to give 2h weapon calculations or anything. They should just overhaul the JA and make it grant +20% kick attack rate for 1min.

[Sechs]

I think what the point of the JA was supposed to be giving MNK a way to do slow but powerful attacks. Back then one of the complaints with MNK was "it gives too much TP" due to its fast attacks. Maybe that was the reason?
But aside from a small window of time (level cap 80-85 I think) where Footwork MNK with OAT weapon was absolutely ridiculous, the JA never got many uses. I remember using it as MNK/THF on Ixion lol

While cool in concept it was poorly executed.
In hindsight what they should've done is:
1) Make foot weapon considered as 2H, gaining benefits from Hasso etc
2) Make +kick rate attack (legs slot and traits) convert into +base damage, furtherly added to the one on the feet slot


Now it simply makes no sense. First because H2H weapons got an insane boost in base damage that Footwork didn't get, secondly because even if the JA worked as it should always have, I'm not sure it would be desirable to use it today (plus it's dispellable anyway).
I agree they should transform it into something else, Ophannus idea is cool, or anything along those lines.

[dasva]

In hindsight what they should've done is:
1) Make foot weapon considered as 2H, gaining benefits from Hasso etc

Now it simply makes no sense. First because H2H weapons got an insane boost in base damage that Footwork didn't get,

This might have been too strong really. Well at the time maybe not but now yeah you'd actually have a lower effective delay with footwork than without if hasso applied like normal.
Also I thought footwork would've gotten a boost too. Wouldn't all the skill also have boosted dmg too? Not as much true since weapon base dmg has gone up a ton as well and the little jp bonus doesn't come close but it's something

[Sechs]

Not sure I got what you meant. You meant the skill on weapons should affect footwork too?
I never tested it but yes, in theory it should... I forgot about that, I think you're right.
But in the end when you have 120-140 +damage on weapon it's a hard fight regardless
The best kicking equipment atm is Sokushitsu sune-ate (likely to be surpassed by reforged empy soon) is +85, when you add the +18 from footwork it's 103.
Considering the average baseline for h2h damage atm is 126, and considering how Footwork didn't manage to beat normal h2h even when it provided much higher base damage, you can imagine how bad this ability would be when it actually provides even less damage xD

But regardless of all that, Monk doesn't need what this JA was suppoed to do anymore. It would be better if they changed it into something else. Like 100% proc for 30 seconds every 5 minutes, or +X% proc for some time when you activate it, etc.

[Niiro]

Even back when the level cap was 80 the only thing I remember using Footwork for was to do a jacked Tornado Kick every 5 mins and immediately turn it off.

And that was when Dune Boots still had significantly more damage than any H2H weapon, if there aren't even any boots that can match H2H base damage, much less surpass it...

[Sechs]

No Niiro I think you're mixing up stuff. There were other feet items better than Dune Boots when the cap was raised, last but not least the Empy feet.
It's been a short window of time, I don't remember if it was leel cap at 80 or level cap 85, one of those two, but Footwork could exploit OAT from main weapon, it was like having an OAT weapon but instead of the typical shit +damage, it had as much damage as a very strong 2H weapon, relic-like.
Add the insane TP return from the first 2 hits of WS (13+ TP for BOTH the first 2 hits) and then you can get a bare idea of how broken it was.
Didn't last long, but it sure was fun.

[Niiro]

I know, that's why I referenced 80 cap when AF3 didn't exist yet and no one really had the OAT weapons (iirc there was only OAx2 at 80 cap as well).

The fact that it was only good when it was broken doesn't make much of a case for it's current, non-broken situation.

[dasva]

Yeah to make it work as is it needs a huge base dmg increase to keep in line with what weapons have gotten. Like straight up a good +80 or so to base before any enhancements from equipment or jp. And a 119 oat weapon wouldn't hurt either