Enmity post march 2015 patch

[FaeQueenCory]

Enmity resets that happen after large AoE damage on content without RNGs.... Are kinda the worst.
And RUN got a little hurt by the damage nerf (not to the point where it's gimp, just now can't rely on GS damage to maintain capped hate)...

But overall I like it.
I expect them to boost the natural -enmity WHM gets at some point, if only to smooth things out. (Wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming Trust revamp is testing such a thing out.)

[Sechs]

Was GSWD ever a big part into RUN's enmity generation?
I always was surprised to notice how my damage on RUN was always noticeably lower than my friends on PLD.
But that's probably because I usually love being on /BLU and the job can get so spell spammy in such circumstances you hardly ever melee.
I was getting more TP from Battuta parries than from melee attacks...

[dasva]

My dmg on both were usually fairly similar though it was easier for me to fit in some extra acc on run. But both of them run into the problem of acc vs survivability. But then again anything you really need going the extra mile for on survivability you probably wont be hitting anyways without the acc buffs you wont be getting

[Sechs]

I can see what you're saying and agree with that but the thing when I tank on RUN is that I hardly ever get a chance to melee swing (because of the post-ja, post-spell forced delay).
That's the bigger culprit even before the accuracy thing you mentioned.
Maybe I should try tanking on /NIN or /WAR or even /SAM lol. Haven't tried those in ages, lately I've practically always been on /BLU

[dasva]

Ah yeah that was kind of a play style thing. You could ja/cast less and melee more if you wanted and try to get hate that way or spam all the things

[Martel]

Probably the optimal playstyle would be to spam enmity actions up to hate cap, then coast on DPS enmity. Flashing/Foiling as need to maintain cap.

The issue here is knowing when you're at cap and how much you need to do to maintain that. <,<;; This would be something that an enmity tracker addon would be really good for, even if it couldn't accurately track the enmity of other players.

[Kanriel]

Yeah I would have thought RUN would be hurt the least with this update. 12~s flash/foil recast timers should be amazing for hate generation, both for getting to cap and reclaiming it after a wipe. Add on the usage of /nin to bleed less hate, or /war or /blu for extra hate tools to spam and it should be solid.

[Damane]

Yeah I would have thought RUN would be hurt the least with this update. 12~s flash/foil recast timers should be amazing for hate generation, both for getting to cap and reclaiming it after a wipe. Add on the usage of /nin to bleed less hate, or /war or /blu for extra hate tools to spam and it should be solid.

the problem is the update did throw /sam for RUN totally out the window which hurts epeolatry runs the most ¬.¬. previously riding hasso and keeping hate wasnt an issue, now riding hasso and keeping hate is uuuuuuhhh because dmg enmity was nerfed. I have to cast so much more shit. If anything i am inclined to go for /drk now :/ but then again Last resort might hurt a bit for a tank

[Lolwutt]

-Incursion and other CP burns are more annoying because one melee round often won't get hate on a slept mob.
-Tenzen requires a bit more attention because melee don't seem to cap hate, so you don't get the rotate-every-swing effect.
-Only done yorcia delve once since patch, but it was quite annoying with a large group. Provoke isn't really sufficient to keep hate when the hate reset also does significant damage that'll need to be cured.

It's more minor annoyance than real problem, but it still shook up the strategy a bit for old content. Tack on that a PLD with few to no gear swaps just using provoke/flash holds hate unquestionably, and I don't think it's particularly balanced either. Somewhere in the middle would have been much better, so that hate control remained worth consideration for BLM and melee don't have those annoying moments where provoke is down and the mob won't stop running between mages.

[Cyleena]

I can see what you're saying and agree with that but the thing when I tank on RUN is that I hardly ever get a chance to melee swing (because of the post-ja, post-spell forced delay).
That's the bigger culprit even before the accuracy thing you mentioned.
Maybe I should try tanking on /NIN or /WAR or even /SAM lol. Haven't tried those in ages, lately I've practically always been on /BLU

I saw a Mr. Sechs /war today when tanking on rune for Vagary NMs and he did a awesome job like always! <3 We could not get the hate off him!

[Draylo]

-Incursion and other CP burns are more annoying because one melee round often won't get hate on a slept mob.
-Tenzen requires a bit more attention because melee don't seem to cap hate, so you don't get the rotate-every-swing effect.
-Only done yorcia delve once since patch, but it was quite annoying with a large group. Provoke isn't really sufficient to keep hate when the hate reset also does significant damage that'll need to be cured.

It's more minor annoyance than real problem, but it still shook up the strategy a bit for old content. Tack on that a PLD with few to no gear swaps just using provoke/flash holds hate unquestionably, and I don't think it's particularly balanced either. Somewhere in the middle would have been much better, so that hate control remained worth consideration for BLM and melee don't have those annoying moments where provoke is down and the mob won't stop running between mages.

That's what most peopled wanted though, was PLD to just tank easily just like in XIV. At least from most that I've talked to.

[Sechs]

That's what most peopled wanted though, was PLD to just tank easily just like in XIV. At least from most that I've talked to.

Put "Tanks" in place of PLD and "any other MMO" instead of XIV.
I think tanking is in a good position atm.
It's not irrelevant as it is in many other themepark MMOs, but it doesn't force you to constantly hold back, never able to put out your real power unless you're zerging, which was frankly quite preposterous and, alas, quite common even in the golden years of FFXI.

Again, despite many flaws that need to be fixed, I don't remember tanking in FFXI ever being in such a good position as it is today.

[Damane]

Put "Tanks" in place of PLD and "any other MMO" instead of XIV.
I think tanking is in a good position atm.
It's not irrelevant as it is in many other themepark MMOs, but it doesn't force you to constantly hold back, never able to put out your real power unless you're zerging, which was frankly quite preposterous and, alas, quite common even in the golden years of FFXI.

Again, despite many flaws that need to be fixed, I don't remember tanking in FFXI ever being in such a good position as it is today.

not disagreeing but i think what bothers people now is that melees have problems holding hate in really high lvl battles off their healers/mages. Some melees prolly still can via different subs but some are sol because they cant mitgate dmg if useing those subs

[Sechs]

People need to let go of the "loltanks" habit we all have been taught all these years and start deploying tanks into more content (or use different setups. Many DDs going /WAR or a DNC/WAR can be quite excellent tanks for easy content that does not require the damage mitigation of real tanks)

I reckon what you described, I've seen it happening. But I think the main cause is just that: people need to stop insisting on doing things like before; they need to adapt to the new status of FFXI and understand that tanks are more useful/necessary than they were before in a wider range of content.

[Fwahm]

Good DDs can still hold hate from healers on everything but the hardest content, like Plouton. I've done several 128 unity NMs without a pld or run, and hate was never a problem. Ripping hate off of paladins happens often too if they aren't properly supported or geared.

[Damane]

Good DDs can still hold hate from healers on everything but the hardest content, like Plouton. I've done several 128 unity NMs without a pld or run, and hate was never a problem. Ripping hate off of paladins happens often too if they aren't properly supported or geared.

oh i dont doubt that. its a question of the buffs the melees (and which melees were used) recieve and what backline they have. but when going with PUGs i rather have hate solid hold, you never know who drops the ball.