Game Watch Translation - Heavensward Role Highlights (EU Media Event 5/18-5/20)

[Niiro]

If you could enter/exit Zombie multiple times you could potentially have up to 30s of being unable to die from direct damage (enter Zombie as Living dead is about to wear and the effect would last almost 10s after Living Dead is over). While that would be difficult to pull off and of arguable usefulness, I don't see SE designing the ability that way.

Makes a lot more sense for the Living Dead buff to be traded for the Zombie effect, puts it pretty much perfectly in line between HG and Holmgang.

[Spider-Dan]

If the zombie Doom effect does not replace Living Dead, then there's no reason at all to believe that you would still be unable to die after Living Dead wears off if you still have Doom (because it's clearly Living Dead that's preventing you from dying, not Doom). So it would be capped at 20 seconds.

Furthermore, a non-replaced Living Dead could be implemented using mechanics we already know exist. Living Dead prevents your HP from dropping below 1 (Holmgang). If your HP would have dropped below 1, you get Doom status, which kills you when the timer expires (many examples of Doom already exist). Healing to full HP erases Doom (WP Hard boss).

If Living Dead is replaced by zombie Doom, then you have to NOT be killable in the switchover (in a game that already has problems with the timing of applying invuln buffs), and you could have an invuln mechanic that potentially lasts under 2 seconds (e.g. LD -> Flatten -> "non-optimized" Benediction).

It seems a lot simpler and more elegant to just leave LD buff active, and if it turns out that 20 seconds is a bit too long and needs to be detuned later, I'd still say that's working as intended for release.

[Niiro]

If the zombie Doom effect does not replace Living Dead, then there's no reason at all to believe that you would still be unable to die after Living Dead wears off if you still have Doom (because it's clearly Living Dead that's preventing you from dying, not Doom).

When you take lethal damage (you must have already used Living Dead, so the buff is already active and ticking down), you turn into an undead sort of thing. During that period, you cannot die, but you will when the buff expires, unless you're healed to 100%.

<_<

[Voyage1970]

That's actually an interesting point. If the Zombie status has any sort of animation attached to it you could very easily run into an issue of dying anyway because the Zombie animation didn't finish before you took more damage. Imagine if you had a buff that automatically used Hallowed Ground when you took fatal damage, I'm sure a lot of the times you would die anyway due to animation delay and other whacky nonsense due to that.

It could still be 10s max duration if they just remove both buff/debuff once you hit 100% HP though, but from a mechanical standpoint it makes more sense to have Living Dead prevent death and Zombie just be the limiting factor.

[Lucavi]

Zombie like thing = Flesh Golem from Undying in Dota?

I can dream. I want muh guts hanging out in a pretty game like ARR. Lets ruffle those perfect hairstyles a bit.

[Voyage1970]

Inb4 they just reuse the zombie/mummy model from Temple of Qarn HM.

[Lucavi]

Amumu curse of the sad mummy crying and bandage toss are set for the first patch.

[Spider-Dan]

Allow me to change emphasis:

When you take lethal damage (you must have already used Living Dead, so the buff is already active and ticking down), you turn into an undead sort of thing. During that period, you cannot die, but you will when the buff expires, unless you're healed to 100%.

If you have to use Living Dead FIRST, and taking damage that would have killed you is what triggers zombie Doom, then Living Dead is what prevents you from dying. Q.E.D.

It's not like you somehow can die when LD is up but not after zombie Doom is up. LD definitely prevents you from dying, full stop.

[Niiro]

The quote says verbatim that you have to have had taken fatal damage to turn undead, and while undead you cannot die.

If you're going to argue that then there's nothing left to argue.

[Raldo]

Both sides are plausible based on the text we have, so yeah, until we see this in action, the best answer is:

Living Dead is going to work how YOU think it does, and by YOU, I mean the YOU that is reading this text.

There, everyone is happy.

[Niiro]

There, everyone is happy.

The fuck we are, I'm still bored as shit.

Why do you think I was even having this conversation to begin with.

[Raldo]

My bad, carry on then, lol

[Rocl]

If Niiro unlocked PVP to get his final gear set maybe he wouldn't be so salty

[Raldo]

I thought Niiro was missing TWO gear sets, and only had 35

[Spider-Dan]

The quote says verbatim that you have to have had taken fatal damage to turn undead, and while undead you cannot die.

If you're going to argue that then there's nothing left to argue.

The quote also says that you have to have Living Dead active BEFORE you take fatal damage, because otherwise you, um, just die.

Being unable to die while you have zombie Doom is not at all inconsistent with LD remaining active and protecting you from death (because we already know for a fact that LD protects you from death, or you'd be dead before you turned into a zombie).

I suppose you could be reading into that quote that the author specifically tested taking fatal damage after LD had worn off but before zombie Doom was wiped. I think that's a very ambitious interpretation.

And again: in this game (the one where PLDs die all the time even though they consumed HG cooldown), if there is a transition between invuln buffs, there would likely be a non-zero number of people who die because they took damage between LD being removed and zombie Doom being applied.

[Rocl]

I thought Niiro was missing TWO gear sets, and only had 35

wow sounds like he needs to unlock frontlines AND wolves' den then

[Raldo]

And again: in this game (the one where PLDs die all the time even though they consumed HG cooldown), if there is a transition between invuln buffs, there would likely be a non-zero number of people who die because they took damage between LD being removed and zombie Doom being applied.

I don't think this is an apt comparison... Your example of manually using Hallowed Ground is a far cry from the system switching from one buff to another. There are several instances in the game where a buff/debuff ends and grants a different buff/debuff (see: Berserk, Virus, that BLM thing nobody uses, etc.), so it's not like this is new. I'd like to believe that they can manage to not have a gap in the transition from one buff to another to allow people to die.

Not to poop on anyone's parade, but I'm not expecting ANY animation to go off when you go into a zombie state, so I'm not expecting any "animation delay". Maybe just that puff of smoke you get when you use up your perfect dodge.

[Niiro]

wow sounds like he needs to unlock frontlines AND wolves' den then

Fuck you Rocl.

[Niiro]

[Destinye]

My only issue is the whole: "Curing you while you're an undead thing" when most if not all FFs before this curing something undead either negated it or killed it.

Nitpick, sure but it just reminds me of those little things that always added a bit of depth to battle variety.