Game Watch Translation - Field/Dungeon Areas (EU Media Tour 5/19-5/21)

[Lucavi]

i liked the XIII games because it show exactly how linear and truly "thrown together" FF game storyline and progression is when you get rid of the illusion of choice and exploration. Like, if they made all of the actual lore in the game instead of datalogs, would be far less complaints..but it's weird to see the actual FF formula in the 3D era of FF games when they started moving far away from it.

My favorite is 5 then 9. I didn't care for tactics. I like TT games but FFTT just felt odd to me but I was too hooked on Fire Emblem at the time so yeah lol.

Given how they did the lore datalogs, I'd have much rather read FFXIII than played it. If you're going to remove all choice, then I agree that why not simply make it a goddamn book or movie and be done with it?

That's not to say that I didn't enjoy moments of combat in it. There were actually quite a few spots I stopped to grind and very much enjoyed those experiences, but even when grinding, it was within a single room or map, which is still kinda hilarious in terms of that being your only "freedom of exploration".

[Elcura]

Hard to say what game isn't just a story on rails...or what story isn't just a story on rails. XIII's lack of choice and illusion were fixed in later entries but it still didn't matter because the damage was done. I'd say the only reason why XIII's story is so hard to swallow is because it barely does enough to get you to believe in anything.

Ultimately the problem is that for some people this is fun and for some people it isn't.

You can absolutely never satisfy both camps.

Individual tastes count for a lot (to the individual), but generally the difference is between having fun because you know and want to abuse mechanics (inversely can be seen as less fun/functional unless you do this) and having fun because the gameplay is just solid no matter what you do.

[Skai]

I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed XIII. I didn't mind the linear progression like most did. Thought the battle was fun for what it was despite it being locked for the first half of the game. Story was good enough for me to stay engaged. Overall, I had fun and that's what mattered to me.

Heck, I enjoyed most of them all. I keep the standard low so I can have more fun.

Although the one I go back to the most was Tactics. Love it to death. Story, battle, characters, you name it. Fuck, can we get a console sequel yet? "Life is short...Bury! Steady Sword!"

[Kelenae]

I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed XIII. I didn't mind the linear progression like most did. Thought the battle was fun for what it was despite it being locked for the first half of the game. Story was good enough for me to stay engaged. Overall, I had fun and that's what mattered to me.

Heck, I enjoyed most of them all. I keep the standard low so I can have more fun.

Although the one I go back to the most was Tactics. Love it to death. Story, battle, characters, you name it. Fuck, can we get a console sequel yet? "Life is short...Bury! Steady Sword!"

Ya, i always keep my standards low as well. And i enjoyed XIII and Lightning Returns.

As for Tactics, Yes please. Need a real console sequal, not the gba stuff. I found the gba tactics pretty fun tho.

[Spider-Dan]

99% of the fun I derive from offline RPGs is from trying to devise the most broken setup possible.

I don't think I've played an RPG that is "difficult" in decades, and even back then "difficult" was really just a synonym for "grindy" (i.e. go grind Esper Cave for hours until Rosa learns Wall, then cast wall on Asura).

[Taim Meich]

99% of the fun I derive from offline RPGs is from trying to devise the most broken setup possible.

I don't think I've played an RPG that is "difficult" in decades, and even back then "difficult" was really just a synonym for "grindy" (i.e. go grind Esper Cave for hours until Rosa learns Wall, then cast wall on Asura).

Any game that rewards time spent with improvements (be it levels, more skills, etc.) will never be truly difficult, as you can overcome the difficulties you encounter by powerleveling, with little exceptions (one being, now that I think of it, the chocobo battle in chapter 4 of FFT). Do it overleveled and prepare to suffer painful chocometeor death). Only games that rely purely on your skill, or that have very very limited resources for leveling (early Fire Emblem games, for example) make you get good instead of just grinding five more levels.

[Sephiroth]

I enjoyed XIII and even moreso XIII-2 but I couldn't wait to get through LR because I hated the battle system. Worst battle system in the series for me. It had a good story however which made the game playable.

[Elcura]

I enjoyed XIII and even moreso XIII-2 but I couldn't wait to get through LR because I hated the battle system. Worst battle system in the series for me. It had a good story however which made the game playable.

Battle system in LR is the only part that was good, though I get that it isn't ideal if you aren't an action fan and are used to more traditional battle systems.

However I cannot find any redeeming features in the story, that you'll have to run by me because by LR it was basically fan-fiction level.

[Ratatapa]

Problem with the XIII series system imo was the Stagger system.

Shit could take a while if you didn't know what to do

[Voyage1970]

Problem with the XIII series system imo was the Stagger system.

Shit could take a while if you didn't know what to do

I actually would have liked the stagger system if it was similar to XI's system where each enemy had a special trigger and it was a bonus instead of a necessity. The Stagger system in XIII was ruined by it being mandatory for pretty much all boss fights and leaves most battles to be cookie cutter spam Debuffs/Buffs > Ravager till Stagger > Commando > rinse repeat. That and the inability to control your other 2 characters beyond changing their AI and Skills with Paradigm Shifts made battles essentially play out by themselves with little input from you.

Aside from that none of the characters barring Sazh really felt like they had any depth to them.

[Lucavi]

99% of the fun I derive from offline RPGs is from trying to devise the most broken setup possible.

I don't think I've played an RPG that is "difficult" in decades, and even back then "difficult" was really just a synonym for "grindy" (i.e. go grind Esper Cave for hours until Rosa learns Wall, then cast wall on Asura).

I'll give FFIV on the DS credit: the first time you play through it, you get your shit wrecked in a few places. The first would be against the sand worms right after you lose Kain. The next major one I remember was going for Bahamut and getting my shit pushed in by the sorcerers and lunar chicks with the sword and board. Delicious XP up there, but they hit like fucking trucks.

Once you start doing new game plusses with OP ass augments and stupid setups, everything becomes piss easy, but the first time you walk into Bahamut's cave... oh boy.

[Elcura]

If you're looking for difficult RPGs try some SMT games, though any game that's more action than RPG can be difficult for real reasons. SMT is the only series I remember to give me trouble.

Edit: I'd also settle for The Last Remnant as well, that shit is crazy.

[Sho]

And then there's FFT, which had S+ Story and S+ gameplay.

I must agree again.

[Sho]

Favorite thing about Tactics was lowering an opponents bravery to zero and having him turn into a literal Chicken. Naturally my favorite character besides Agrias was Beowulf for his OP Oracle spells on crack.

All the greats wear brown cloaks, have white beards, uses sword, doesn't afraid of anything and are bossmode. So I have to go for TG Cid.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2432/3...1f852d611f.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Ben_Kenobi.png



RIP 2/3 Cloaked badasses.

[Neon_Sea]

Lunar had some annoying things about it that made the enemies and bosses level up with you, though there was some workarounds it did make some stages in the game fairly tough.

[Ayn]

In the FF13 trilogy, I'd argue that..

13-1 "Story"
13-2 Gameplay
13-3 ..I don't know. Gameplay?

Whatever, I enjoyed them all to some degree. 13-2 more than 13-1, and 13-3 was interesting enough.

[Sephiroth]

Battle system in LR is the only part that was good, though I get that it isn't ideal if you aren't an action fan and are used to more traditional battle systems.

However I cannot find any redeeming features in the story, that you'll have to run by me because by LR it was basically fan-fiction level.

That's why I didn't like it, I'm not a fan of action RPGs and most of the game felt like button mashing. The only time I had to think about which abilities to use and plan my attack was when the final boss kept slaughtering me. At least it was a challenge, I'll give it that as most final bosses tend to be really easy in FF games. I'm worried XV is going down the same action route because everything else about the game looks awesome.

As for the story, it may not stand great on its own but I found it to be a very good conclusion to the XIII series.

[Elcura]

That's why I didn't like it, I'm not a fan of action RPGs and most of the game felt like button mashing. The only time I had to think about which abilities to use and plan my attack was when the final boss kept slaughtering me. At least it was a challenge, I'll give it that as most final bosses tend to be really easy in FF games. I'm worried XV is going down the same action route because everything else about the game looks awesome.

As for the story, it may not stand great on its own but I found it to be a very good conclusion to the XIII series.

I guess you could go through most of the game button mashing but there are a lot fights where that will wreck your shit (last boss and optional stuff included), though I suppose due to RPG mechanics you can get by with stuff.

But if you think LR is bad then I would skip XV altogether unless there happens to be some weird RPG mode that these action games like to have where you can mash buttons and get shit done. But I do not foresee you liking it even though I bet it will have it like Type-0.

Do you like playing Type-0? That'd be closer to XV than LR.

[Rionel]

^

Between having to charge MP, having to charge spells, and having to close with your target because of limited range (on top of casters being extremely vulnerable) magic was pretty ass compared to chucking insta-use potions or using insta-use MNK skills (later on insta-use OP unique char skills).

FFT Talk:

Spoiler: show

Honestly, if the battle isn't over by the time your mages are out of MP, you probably were screwed either way lol~ but recovering MP is really not a very difficult thing to do in that game anyway. There are a ton of ways to do this.

There are also several workarounds to protect casters, like with mantles, reaction abilities... etc etc. So many possibilities to cover their weaknesses (or just use Blade Grasp and be OP, lol~ which ironically enough can only reliably be pierced by magic/special abilities).

You also say magic has limited range, but don't forget a lot of the melee type classes have only 3 move. They're probably not gonna reach your mages unless they got some move+ gear / abilities anyway. This also isn't taking into account height differences and what not, where mages also have the advantage. Regardless, you wouldn't be casting with your mage completely unassisted anyway / not checking turn list or move of your enemies. It's very easy to to get your mage killed if you don't check these things.

Then there's also things like how with "tracking targeting", you could actually target one of your party members with an offense spell, and have them run into the enemies with it. This works particularly well with Summoning Magic, because of it's innate trait of only hitting only your enemies if it's an attack type, and alternatively only hitting allies if it's a support type. Or hell, maybe you could use a character with ele-absorb equipment and simultaneously damage the enemy whilst healing the targeted character.

Hell, if you're so worried about MP and cast times, just give your mage Draw Out/Iaido. Insta neutral-element Summoner-esque abilities based on magic attack that ignore faith, no charge time, comes with some nifty support abilities like AoE heal, Protect/Shell (Haste/Regen if you're really far into the game) at 100% chance, AND comes with a uber long ranged Earth Slash type thing later on.

There are many things you can do, really.

And while I do agree MNK has awesome skills, don't forget that all their support abilities have 0 vertical reach. Yeah... having a character die on a single tile by themselves with even a 0.5 height dif for Revive/Chakra/Purification sorta sucks, haha. It's not -totally- foolproof. Really amazing, but not foolproof. Also the problem with Revive/Phoenix Downs is how they only revive the character with single digit/critical HP, whereas Arise brings them back with full HP, which to me feels a heck of a lot safer if they're dead near enemies.

Also I find unless you start using Elixirs, potions do not scale very well once you start getting remotely to the higher end of levels. At least Cure/Support magic are significantly buffed with Zodiac compatibility + Faith spell + Magic stat, which makes them a lot less cruddy and have room to grow beyond rather than stay static numbers like potion items.

And hell yes you better be abusing the Zodiac compatibility system. The first thing I do at the beginning of the game is get 4 units that are all "Good" compatibility with each other and Ramza (obviously). Makes a world of difference for magic.

Also after the first time I beat FFT, I never actually used the unique characters (aside from Ramza, obviously) and purely stuck with generics in subsequent playthroughs. I just found it more fun that way.

I really could go on and on so I'm gonna stop myself, haha.

Yeah, FFT is just pretty amazing to me. It's one of my beloved childhood classics that I still love even today. Nothing has really topped it for me honestly (don't get me started on the Advance version).

[Cutriss]

I'm not really sure why so many people bag on FFTA, I'm guessing they didn't like the laws or the race-specific jobs. I thought the laws were a neat way to freshen things up, the JP system works well (I'm an RPG hoarder so it worked great for me!), and the setting was nice. Was it as good as FFT? No, but that's an impossibly high mark to reach honestly.

Also I may be misremembering but I don't think summons could target characters, only areas. But yeah, kamikaze tactics worked great, and so did casting while fleeing. Casters were soft but it wasn't a big problem.