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  1. #21
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoctopus View Post
    This should be easy enough to test with a few friends, I would think. Get a few friends together, toss synergy on one of them, throw out Helios and see how much Synergy heals them for in the combat log. I can test this tonight when I got home, but I just barely got to work so it'll be a few hours before I get the chance. If anyone else wants to jump on this, that'd be helpful.


    Lady Tisi from my LS said she likes to use it to rapidly apply stoneskin. I am trying to train myself to use it when I need to quickly cure up a whole party with Helios, but don't always remember to cast it. Room-wide unavoidable damage seems to be where I start having trouble keeping up with the healing, and I think recovering from those situations is where you'd want to do a lightspeed+helios spam.


    I sincerely believe that Bole is our most important card, period. Anything that can reduce the amount we need to heal for.


    The shields from Nocturnal are simply too weak to have the general practicality of SCH adlo. Kari mentioned in their post that it's a 250 potency cure (AB) vs 300 potency (adlo), which is accurate, but also leaves out that SCH will still have Eos or Selene likely macroed to cast embrace with adlo. Once you take that into consideration you're looking at a shield with 50 more potency that doubles on crit (NS shields do not to the best of my knowledge at this time) in addition to a 300 potency fairy heal. Depending on how you're looking at it, NS is at best half as effective as a scholar doing the same work, if we're comparing to crits it drops to 33% as effective.
    Synastry doesn't work on HoTs, only normal cures. I also forgot that the caster and the person you target will be put under the effect but no regen ticks from aspected benefic. I assume it works the same way for helios so I didn't bother testing it directly.

  2. #22
    ♥ Neliel ♥
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    The clicking off cards thing has been pretty useful for me, glad it was mentioned now.

    Did Bismark EX tonight with double AST, as well 3 tanks too, ended up working out better than I thought. It's pretty sad I already see PF groups not wanting an AST for the new primals I guess I just check at bad times but its usually SCH/WHM spot, very few have AST in it.

  3. #23

    AST has the same problem SCH had when it first came out I guess, not enough experience with the job to truly know but from what I've seen AST does fine. The only weak points I'd say are Collective Unconscious and a generally lacklustre shield mode.

    Still early days, I think people jump to conclusions really quickly.

  4. #24
    THE FAIRY CAT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    AST has the same problem SCH had when it first came out I guess, not enough experience with the job to truly know but from what I've seen AST does fine. The only weak points I'd say are Collective Unconscious and a generally lacklustre shield mode.

    Still early days, I think people jump to conclusions really quickly.
    Nocturnal sect is the weaker stance. I haven't done any current endgame primal fights (Only level 55 atm) but right now I think nocturnal stance shields just... suck. Benefic II is literally more than double the potency of Aspected Benefic even when you consider the shield absorb, and ABII has a lower MP cost. Helios vs. Aspected Helios is the same thing. If you were able to switch stances in combat so you could put up a shield prior to a big hit, that'd be fine, but because you can't you're giving up a ton of healing capability to have shields that are situational at best, useless at worst.

    In a group with 2 healers, I don't think AST nocturnal is anywhere close to SCH. SCH gives consistent, guaranteed mitigation, and is more MP efficient whilst doing so. Selene's speed buff is also more powerful than Arrow, with better uptime, so when considering WHM + SCH vs WHM + AST, you'll get better mitigation and overall better damage output with a SCH.

    I think AST + SCH is a much better combination, with the shields + aoe regens being a pretty cool combination. AST would theoretically ensure that the SCH can use Selene 100% (we'd supply the AoE regen!) while bringing the additional AST buffs to the table. As Diurnal is easily our better stance anyways, this is a better fit for our class. I do not know much about WHM's changes to speak to how WHM plays in content these days, so as far as AST vs. WHM in a two party group I only know one side of the coin.

    These are just opinions based on speculation, so if I'm missing anything really major please let me know.

  5. #25
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    So by reading those post I can assume that AST shield and SCH adlo doesn't stack?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    So by reading those post I can assume that AST shield and SCH adlo doesn't stack?
    If either shield is 100% full:
    Whichever shield is stronger takes priority (will usually be SCH)

    If shield has already absorbed damage:
    Next shield applied replaces damaged shield, regardless of remaining damage to absorb.

  7. #27

    From what I can tell, AST and WHM can be a powerful combination if they stack regens. I've gotten up to 2700 a tic regens with a WHM friend, at that level we both just cleric DPS until regens wear off. I dunno how practical it is, but it's fucking hilariously fun.

    I think Noct Sect would be a lot better if shield crits doubled the power, even though we have the added benefit of a mobile shield it's just too weak to care about.

  8. #28
    Old Odin
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    The regens don't stack either though, or at least are not supposed to. I'm guessing it stacks with Medica2?

    AST's whole design is to just be the missing healer and slightly worse at it, in exchange for card buffs.

    AST+WHM: Nocturnal
    AST+SCH: Diurnal
    AST+AST: Split

  9. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    The regens don't stack either though, or at least are not supposed to. I'm guessing it stacks with Medica2?

    AST's whole design is to just be the missing healer and slightly worse at it, in exchange for card buffs.

    AST+WHM: Nocturnal
    AST+SCH: Diurnal
    AST+AST: Split
    I mean theoretically they shouldn't but they do. A.Benefic/Helios stacks with Medica and Regen, giving insane regen (then add Collective/Asylum for more!). I'm sure it's an oversight and will get patched though considering AST+SCH can't dance like this.

  10. #30
    Old Odin
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    But.. the tooltips say they don't.

    Welp. Nocturnal useless then?

  11. #31
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    I read it as they can not work with more cast of your own cast but white regen work together.

  12. #32

    Yeah, two ASTs in Diurnal cannot stack their regens, but WHM+AST can, yet AST+SCH cannot stack shields. But on the bright side, like Snoctopus said AST+SCH is a really good combination anyway.

    Tentatively I think Nocturnal is useless but I'll give it more of a workout in Ravana. The problem mainly stems from MP costs in Nocturnal as well as low power. If I can A. Helios in Diurnal and not have to cast it again for another 30s thanks to the regen (or longer if I do things), then having Nocturnal give you a one time shield that you'll probably have to use again is hugely inefficient in comparison. Same goes with A. Benefic. AST will run out of MP spamming Aspect cures, which just makes the whole thing shitty.

    On the subject of Collective Unconscious, the Nocturnal version is useful for obvious reasons, but the Diurnal version is great for conserving MP when used at the right time. For Bismarck I got good use out of it when on his back and right after his SP attack letting the regen just tick us up to full while waiting for the phase to change. Stuff like that it's more useful, but I can't find a good application for it in the heat of the moment (though I'm probably overestimating it's usefulness in that sense, pre-planning wise it's a good skill).

    I will say that between card tricks (and priorities), time gimmicks and cures AST is busy as all fuck. Cards used in the right way can also drastically increase DPS without having to do anything, and Disable/enhanced Benefic as well as Lightspeed allow for our own nukes. Overall I'd say the job holds it's own perfectly fine, but nothing is set in stone until Alexander and consistent ilvls.

  13. #33
    Hydra
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    Are only two spell working with the sects?

  14. #34
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cute View Post
    Are only two spell working with the sects?
    There are only two spells that work with the sects.

    So MP thirst is real. I'm about to hit 59 and the final boss of the vault gets really tough in the gear that i'm currently in. I'm popping ewer's on myself whenever they come up and I'm trying to keep Essential on cooldown, since it's basically a free cure every 40 seconds. Ewer's are really helping out though. I used to think it was a trash card, but i'm starting to notice its usefulness when i'm having to throw out a lot of Helios' or A. Helios.

    When I played scholar I used to keep aetherflow on cooldown in coil, making sure i'm using lustrate as aetherflow starts to come back up and this helped out immensely with the MP problems I had back in T5. I didn't really use Luminiferous Aether because it wasn't really tied to any skill and again I don't play WHM. So i'm having to get used to popping it and once I start tackling harder content I think i'll understand when I need to pop it a little bit better. Right now i'm basically popping it at 1/2 - 3/4 MP just so I don't forget before its too late.

    But between using Ewer cards on myself more, popping Essential and keeping Luminiferous Aether on CD its already starting to feel better. I just wished that Essential had better potency or some additional effect with the Sects to help us whenever we get behind on healing. Big pulls are hard to deal with right now, especially with the tools that we've been given.

  15. #35
    Old Merits
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    Don´t forget you can recover MP pretty well with this too:
    1. Throw a card on your party (if no luck do a single one)
    2. AOE Regen
    3. Single Regen on tank
    4. Luminiferous Aether
    5. Extend all buffs on party by 5s (including Stun) with Celestial Opposition (including Luminiferous Aether = one more click I think !!!!)
    5a. Maybe also hit a Time Dilation on tank or whoever has it usefull.
    6. In Regen Mode throw up the 18s Shield and watch the tank recover for 3k+ per tic and...
    7. get a fresh coffee (depending on the danger of the pull of course).

    ***6/7 Okay I mostly do it cause it looks cool (and with only 3-5 easy mobs Regen is way enough / also depends on tank gear).

    But: I run out of MP (or use them up) faster on AST then on WHM ;-(.
    So yes I agree SE has to do here a little bit (reducing heal spell costs).

  16. #36

    MP management on AST is mostly careful and calculated risks with Luminferous(sp probably) Aether. It's on a 2min CD so along with Ewer Cards you can pop Spear on yourself (faster card draws too) and then pop Luminferous Aether and it'll be up that much faster. So yeah, don't hesitate to use cards on yourself, especially Ewer or Spear.

    Collective Unconscious is a good tool to save MP as well and it has a relatively short cooldown so if you plan its use when it's most effective you'll get 1k party wide regen (with whatever regen is also going) and some time to recover a bit of MP.

    Along with Celestial Opposition I don't tend to run out of MP unless I die or get careless and forget to pop Aether because of dying or mechanics. Big pulls are somewhat difficult if you don't get the right cards (enhanced Bole + time tricks) and a 4s stun only helps so much. Essentially Dignity have a weak aspect effect would be great too. I kinda feel like if Nocturnal Sect worked better it would be good for big pulls.

  17. #37
    ♥ Neliel ♥
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    Speaking of Celestial Opposition, I just found out today it reduces your food, as well as party member's food to 30sec... I kept wondering what the fuck would happen to my food despite me knowing the timer was well over 30min on it.

  18. #38
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    Yes, Opposition is bugged (maybe they're fixing it in the patch now?)
    As a whm I tend not to use Shroud of Saints until around 1/3rd MP left, but I find as 53AST I am popping Lumi around 1/2 MP. Feels better that way to me. WHM also has Assize now which gives back a good chunk of MP fairly often...this helps most with Dpsing, which I really don't think I have the time for on AST most of the time as the heals and nukes are all around not as potent as WHM's. I notice Ewer helps for running low on MP but it just doesn't feel as "safe" as using a skill that gives back a set amount of MP. So far I haven't had any real problems with AST MP, though.

  19. #39
    Old Odin
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    ast needs a bit (slightly only) in the healing potency and a big adjustment to shields for nocturnal sect.
    biggest problem i have at the moment is that you cant hold a cars without being in battle i think they should change that so you can prepare pre battle and during pulls more easy. also gravity not being lvl 50 sucks balls for high lvl roulettes ...

  20. #40
    ♥ Neliel ♥
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    For me it depends on the fight, some fights I'll pop my Lumi early around 90%mp, if I know I won't be hitting my max mp again while its up. Once I know a fight, I kinda time my shrouds(lumi), to the point where it'll come back up when I need it, without it reaching my max mp again, though it may get close. At the moment, I only seem to run into mp issues if I'm constantly raising, or I have to cover for other healer if they die/low on mp. These main reasons is why I like to keep my MP at a high at all times if possible, just incase events like these happen.

    I'm really liking healing ravana ex though, even get to make use of barrier stance, had far better results with it over the other stance.