Astrologian Discussion Thread: (Insert Yu-Gi-Oh! joke here)

[Kaisha]

And for the time it takes AST to prepare themselves to be able to sit in Clerics, SCH is already dancing with 3 dots bane'd onto everything and a shadowflare.

Would like the job more if you could freely pick a card outside of combat rather than this whole training dummy baiting shit.

[Elcura]

And for the time it takes AST to prepare themselves to be able to sit in Clerics, SCH is already dancing with 3 dots bane'd onto everything and a shadowflare.

Who cares if it takes like 5 seconds (seriously, like the time it takes to cast A. Helios, A. Benefic and use draw is the time it takes to cast A. Helios lol) for AST to set up. SCH can pop fairy regen, maybe throw down soil/eye and Adlo for prep which takes just as long depending on Fairy retardation. Or you don't do any of that and aren't even close to prepared like AST is.

In the end, I'd say all jobs are more or less in-line with different focuses in terms of DPS and healing. So far all the conversation has been about is "I prefer to DPS on whatever" rather than AST DPS is bad because it isn't SCH or WHM DPS lol.

I mean it maybe because cards are so hit or miss, even when you get the perfect combo the person you use the cards on might be retarded but even just looking at stuff without cards AST is totally competent and with it in every category except AoE.

[HitomeOfBismarck]

job suxx needs buffz

[Snoctopus]

Who cares if it takes like 5 seconds (seriously, like the time it takes to cast A. Helios, A. Benefic and use draw is the time it takes to cast A. Helios lol) for AST to set up. SCH can pop fairy regen, maybe throw down soil/eye and Adlo for prep which takes just as long depending on Fairy retardation. Or you don't do any of that and aren't even close to prepared like AST is.

In the end, I'd say all jobs are more or less in-line with different focuses in terms of DPS and healing. So far all the conversation has been about is "I prefer to DPS on whatever" rather than AST DPS is bad because it isn't SCH or WHM DPS lol.

I mean it maybe because cards are so hit or miss, even when you get the perfect combo the person you use the cards on might be retarded but even just looking at stuff without cards AST is totally competent and with it in every category except AoE.

The problem I have with AST dps is that the moment you stop curing (assuming you're not in a 2-healer scenario) you put yourself in a very bad spot. If you put up the regens from helios it helps, sure, but that doesn't compare to have a fairy spam healing the tank (for free!) or the 4x stuns you're going to get from holy. If things get out of hand for a whm, they have 2 cooldowns they can use in a pinch, if things get out of hand for SCH, they can lustrate 3x, but if things get out of hand for AST you get 1 cooldown, and then you're racing to keep up with healing again.

On paper AST dps should be pretty good, sure. In practice I feel like it's too dangerous to attempt.

[Kari]

From spamming Alex F1 over and over, every time I DPS I run out of MP quickly. I do a decent amount of damage, I'm only i176 (Hive weapon) and I can pull 400-500 DPS without much trouble, but no matter what I do the MP just isn't there. Not even using Malefic II. I put Ewers on myself quite often, keep my Refresh constantly on cooldown (with spear if possible, extended if possible), nothing seems to matter there. Might be better when I get more gear, dunno. Full Alexander set with Hive weapon would give me over 100 more PIE, so maybe.

Could probably still do decent damage with just the dots, but whenever there is no healing necessary I'm usually sitting around for MP and that's something I never did on SCH.

[Elcura]

On paper AST dps should be pretty good, sure. In practice I feel like it's too dangerous to attempt.

I get what you mean, but a fully loaded regen should be the same or better than a fairy healing? I'm not too familiar with fairy cures at 60, but regens tend to tick for like 1200+? And I remember Fairy crit cures for 2k, so overall it should equal out (+Bole) I'll have to check again, but basically have regens up and occasionally throwing a SS to let HP tick up lets you DPS.

Of course, it also depends on tank CDs and actions, but generally you don't have to worry and keeping Essential Dignity for safety helps too.

[Falisa]

I feel there is a very large difference of a Divine Sealed Regen + Medica II on a tank with holy stun spam and an Aspected Helios + Benefic with a bole on a tank. I feel much safer on WHM to dps. Then also throw in the RNG of even getting bole, plus the fact that your stun might not be off cooldown yet from the previous trash pack since it is very long. Yes, Astrologian CAN dps but it most certainly is not as consistent or as safe as doing such on WHM or SCH.

I also have to disagree with an earlier point of Predictive vs Reactionary healing. Across the board in all MMOs, to be a good healer you should always predict when damage is coming and prepare for it. You save mana and have much less "oh shit" moments the better you get at doing this. I also don't see much of a difference in this regards with the healing classes.

[Snoctopus]

I get what you mean, but a fully loaded regen should be the same or better than a fairy healing? I'm not too familiar with fairy cures at 60, but regens tend to tick for like 1200+? And I remember Fairy crit cures for 2k, so overall it should equal out (+Bole) I'll have to check again, but basically have regens up and occasionally throwing a SS to let HP tick up lets you DPS.

Of course, it also depends on tank CDs and actions, but generally you don't have to worry and keeping Essential Dignity for safety helps too.

Purely by the numbers, Aspected Helios is 50 potency/tick, and Aspected Benefic is 100 potency/tick. Embrace is 300. Assuming the 3 second global dot/hot timer, and embrace's 3 second recast, per every 3 seconds an SCH will be healing the tank for literally double- and that's assuming they didn't pop Whispering Dawn.

[Dotsudoku]

I also have to disagree with an earlier point of Predictive vs Reactionary healing. Across the board in all MMOs, to be a good healer you should always predict when damage is coming and prepare for it. You save mana and have much less "oh shit" moments the better you get at doing this. I also don't see much of a difference in this regards with the healing classes.

To this effect, I think categorizing healers as proactive vs reactionary is too narrow. I think a more fair comparison takes those two elements in addition to MP management, AoE capacity, and offense into account. All of these are obviously just my opinion, but...

WHM: so-so proactive shielding with quick stoneskins; very strong reactionary healing with larger heals and its new instant healing CD; good MP management with SoS, Assize, and traits; virtually limitless AoE capacity; and good offensive capabilities with both DOTs and Stone3

SCH: unbeatable proactive shielding with galvanize, Supervirus, and SS; very strong reactionary healing with Lustrate; unbeatable MP management with Aetherflow and Energy Drain in a pinch; so-so AoE capacity, made slightly less problematic with new Aetherflow abilities; and good offensive capabilities with DOTs and the ability to Cleric's more comfortably

AST: fair proactive shielding based on stance; good reactionary healing based on stance; so-so MP management with only one gradual JA to recover with; good AoE capacity with similar strength and resources to WHM; and while MP management and a lack of comfort with Cleric's can be troublesome when DPS is desirable, strong, perfectly accurate DOTs and semi-regular indirect and direct boosts to party DPS that can be used entirely passively make up for this

For these reasons, I think MP regeneration is the only glaringly obvious issue with AST at the moment. I'd say they're otherwise fairly balanced, and serving exactly the purpose they were intended to.

butthatsnoneofmybusiness.jpg

[Taim Meich]

Purely by the numbers, Aspected Helios is 50 potency/tick, and Aspected Benefic is 100 potency/tick. Embrace is 300. Assuming the 3 second global dot/hot timer, and embrace's 3 second recast, per every 3 seconds an SCH will be healing the tank for literally double- and that's assuming they didn't pop Whispering Dawn.

You're making a wrong assumption, namely that 300 potency on the fairy equals 300 potency on a player. And that is not the case, as fairy heals are weaker than player heals even given the same potency.

[Snoctopus]

You're making a wrong assumption, namely that 300 potency on the fairy equals 300 potency on a player. And that is not the case, as fairy heals are weaker than player heals even given the same potency.

I forgot about Magick and Mend II. If I'm understanding the traits correctly, it's not that the 300 potency heal on a fairy is less powerful than a 300 potency heal from a player in a point-to-point matter, it's that a player's heal as a result of the trait is 30% stronger than the fairy's.

That would still put AST at 195 potency per tick vs. 300, though.

[Elcura]

I feel there is a very large difference of a Divine Sealed Regen + Medica II on a tank with holy stun spam and an Aspected Helios + Benefic with a bole on a tank. I feel much safer on WHM to dps. Then also throw in the RNG of even getting bole, plus the fact that your stun might not be off cooldown yet from the previous trash pack since it is very long. Yes, Astrologian CAN dps but it most certainly is not as consistent or as safe as doing such on WHM or SCH.

I also have to disagree with an earlier point of Predictive vs Reactionary healing. Across the board in all MMOs, to be a good healer you should always predict when damage is coming and prepare for it. You save mana and have much less "oh shit" moments the better you get at doing this. I also don't see much of a difference in this regards with the healing classes.

I don't think there's a huge difference (it's cards so hard to tell) since max strength Bole is fucking strong and lasts for at least 30 seconds (if that's the case, the regens are going to tick for like 30-55s too). Honestly I don't know why healers feel more comfortable on certain jobs when it comes to DPS because my comfort when DPSing comes from how competent the tank is. If the tank is an idiot then I wouldn't feel safe on any job and vice versa.

And saying "Yes AST CAN dps" like it usually has rabies and can't be trusted is funny. It's as consistent as using cards right can be and as safe as your tank generally allows. The difference between healers is personal comfort levels and tank competence. Like if WHM is 1 and SCH is 2, AST is 3 and the danger is basically nothing between them.

On the subject of MP, having done Alexander 1-4 on AST @ like 175 (180 weapon) I had absolutely no problems with MP even after death and without MAC/BRD. Benefic is fucking great.

You're making a wrong assumption, namely that 300 potency on the fairy equals 300 potency on a player. And that is not the case, as fairy heals are weaker than player heals even given the same potency.

Yeah, from I've seen the fairy doesn't scale for shit either past 50 so overall I think regens are just about equal with a fairy curing.

[Taim Meich]

Some hard data from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ken_right_now/

Naked 60 SCH with Ravana weapon heals for roughly 1k Physick and the faerie less than half of that. So, Faerie healing is roughly equivalent as a 200 potency player heal.

[Elcura]

And my regens (no party, on self) generally heal for 1k-1.3k. I'm sure I've seen it in parties ticking for around 1.5k tho (with or without convalescence, can't remember). Add in Bole and you're basically fine. Add in Lightspeed for more safety at the cost of DPS for even more fine.

Shit's fine. All fine.

[lilfoo]

The more i play AST, look at gear, and what SE DEVs have said in the past: AST has no issues, it is just the future of healing, now, in this transition phase.

As you probably notice, no healing gear has ACC in Heavensward and SE DEVs have stated they don't factor healing DPS into building content. So, it is reasonably safe to assume we will get NO ACC in the future, and as ACC caps continue to rise (we're mid 500's with alex now right?) healer DPS will become nonexistent in 4.X's 2ed and 3rd coil equivalents since we are stuck at ~350 ACC and we will just miss too much.

So that makes 3 healer archetypes: WHM raw hps, SCH utility, AST support

I don't think anyone has accepted no healer will be DPSing for much longer and factoring that into how much AST sucks compared to WHM and SCH at the moment

[Niiro]

So long as Bio, Bio II, Shadow Flare, Combust, and Combust II have no initial damage (and thus no accuracy check) healer DPS will always be possible.

WHM is shit outta luck, tho.

[Avarice]

Latest autism: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...aiding/cswie6x

The entire chain of responses.

[Kipling]

This is the evil of armchair theory.

[Silenka]

Talk about SMN pet buffs in other thread made me wonder...
I know for sure that pets can GET the card buff. Do they benefit from it?

[Niiro]

One would hope, but with SE you never know, it could just as likely reduce their damage dealt/increase their damage taken/etc.

Can cards be used on pets directly or just when made AoE with RR?