Astrologian Discussion Thread: (Insert Yu-Gi-Oh! joke here)

[Kipling]

One would hope, but with SE you never know, it could just as likely reduce their damage dealt/increase their damage taken/etc.

Can cards be used on pets directly or just when made AoE with RR?

They can be used directly on pets and compansions.

[Burningthought]

I'm hoping that SE will make some adjustments tonight with the hotfixes. F1 was a little rough with two ASTs.

[Elcura]

I like that a lot of the posts are:

It lacks any sort of (THING) aside from (THING AST HAS).

[Burningthought]

FINAL FANTASY XIV Hotfixes (Jul. 9)
The following issues have been addressed:
An issue during the Zodiac Weapon Zeta cutscene wherein the client would crash under certain conditions.
An issue with the Duty Finder wherein the features of the "Undersized Party" setting might not work during the duty if the party that selected it met minimum party size requirements.
An issue wherein certain text was incorrect.

Why the fuck did they take the server down for 4 hours if that was it?

[Snoctopus]

I like that a lot of the posts are:

It lacks any sort of (THING) aside from (THING AST HAS).

I still like the class, and am still trying to gear it/learn it to the best of my ability. Where I feel hung up on the design is that we have an RNG chance to get a card buff that's at best "as good" as something another class has, or in some cases not as good. Bole is a 10% damage reduction to 1 target, if you get it. 5% to the group if you get it and arrow/spear RR. On the other hand, Sacred Soil is always a 10% reduction, for everyone. No RNG - you'll have it. Arrow is in a similar boat vs Selene.

The class works, and can be used for content. I just wish that we didn't RNG into equivalent strength buffs as the other healers- we should RNG into buffs that are considerably more powerful, if for no other reason that we can't rely on them to be there.

On another note, you had mentioned using stoneskin in lieu of cures to stay in cleric's stance earlier in the thread when regens are up- thanks for that idea. That works pretty damn well.

[Elcura]

I still like the class, and am still trying to gear it/learn it to the best of my ability. Where I feel hung up on the design is that we have an RNG chance to get a card buff that's at best "as good" as something another class has, or in some cases not as good. Bole is a 10% damage reduction to 1 target, if you get it. 5% to the group if you get it and arrow/spear RR. On the other hand, Sacred Soil is always a 10% reduction, for everyone. No RNG - you'll have it. Arrow is in a similar boat vs Selene.

The class works, and can be used for content. I just wish that we didn't RNG into equivalent strength buffs as the other healers- we should RNG into buffs that are considerably more powerful, if for no other reason that we can't rely on them to be there.

On another note, you had mentioned using stoneskin in lieu of cures to stay in cleric's stance earlier in the thread when regens are up- thanks for that idea. That works pretty damn well.

I feel like the potency of buffs is important, but there is also the duration of buffs. 5-10-15% damage reduction at no cost other than RNG can last from 15s to 55s which is equal to soil in duration for the most part and greater in general. The main difference is the AoE factor being weaker, but it's made up by not only the single target potentially being 5% stronger, but also lasts up to twice as long. Not to mention you aren't sacrificing resources, MP or anything other than a GCD for this (and unlike CC or Soil or Asylum, you get this effect even if you aren't in the bubble). Soil might be a sure thing, but it's a sure thing when other sure things could be used instead. I can probably count the number of times I've seen a SCH lay down soil generally vs the amount of Boles I throw out.

So to say you rely on something RNG for something as good is a bit disingenuous. You RNG for something as good and can buff it to be something even better. A lot of the problem is a matter of perspective and the more I play AST the only real changes I want are Spire to be a thing and Spear to affect used abilities. I've had a rare case of someone complaining about TP in Alexander 2 and holy shit I got a Spire and used it and it felt good.

But I still haven't been pushed enough to see ASTs weaknesses, if SE can even push us as a playerbase like that anymore. I thought Alex normal would shed some light on AST weaknesses but so far I've managed everything easily. And I say easily, because it's not this stupid thing of AST barely managing to be a not-WHM or not-SCH, I mean easy as in other healer is dead and I don't give a fuck.

So here's to Alexander Savage to expose AST for buffs. And glad to hear the SS thing helped, it's handy for healer DPS in general and definitely made the role a lot more fun for me.

[Burningthought]

Floor 4 of Alex was rough as fuck, but with mch's mp turret thing and mage's ballad I was fine. I think if people know ahead of time there's gonna be a need for upkeep we will be okay. I abused the shit out of ED for taking care of extra damage and got into the habit of using synergy whenever it was up to help with healing. It's and extra free cure per cast basically.

I didn't use Helios as much as I thought I would, mostly stuck with benefic and A.Helios for raid wide damage and that seemed to work out okay. Keep Ewers up on yourself as much as possible. It wasn't a pleasant run, I would definitely like to see something buffed somewhere to help out with avoidable damage. I kinda felt like I was putting a lot of strain on the whm that tagged along, but we were able to stack medica II, regen, a.benefic and a.helios during the last phase making the 3.2k dot not really matter. Do not get behind on healing and make sure your hp stays high for that shit. Explosions and tethers will fuck you up in a heartbeat. I managed it at ilvl 173 tonight. I'm hoping once I get my hive weapon and accessories upgrade it'll make it easier, but we shall see.

Edit: Buffs also felt worthless, using up a GCD for it meant I was behind on healing someone. I had to Draw > Benefic II/I > Use/Spread/Hold. It didn't seem worth the hassle letting the tank dip below 50% HP just so I can get 3 spires in a row. Even Bole's, Arrows and Balances felt kinda useless since a majority of the party members were spread out for mechanics, it meant that I couldn't hit everyone with expanded. I just started popping them out on a random DPS and hope they got a use for them.

[Elcura]

Final phase of Alex 4 is pretty intense, but as long as people are doing mechanics and not murdering everyone it's easy. Getting overwhelming and forgetting to manage MP is probably the most dangerous thing about it.

As for cards, they queue up between cures so I wouldn't worry about letting tank HP fall (if in doubt, wait for them to use a CD but you should since they wouldn't die because you took a second to press a ogcd button). The main issue is the multitasking while keeping tank alive, but even making really bad decisions with cards is better than making none.

[Burningthought]

Final phase of Alex 4 is pretty intense, but as long as people are doing mechanics and not murdering everyone it's easy. Getting overwhelming and forgetting to manage MP is probably the most dangerous thing about it.

As for cards, they queue up between cures so I wouldn't worry about letting tank HP fall (if in doubt, wait for them to use a CD but you should since they wouldn't die because you took a second to press a ogcd button). The main issue is the multitasking while keeping tank alive, but even making really bad decisions with cards is better than making none.

Don't get me wrong, I still pushed out cards. I just didn't keep draw on CD the entire fight.

[Elcura]

So there was some talk about AST getting buffs, but is there anything specific about what it is? All I've heard is that cards are getting adjustments (probably the spread/shuffle thing?) and maybe stance switching will be a thing? If you can switch stances mid-battle I can safely say goodbye to leveling WHM and SCH, because that shit will be mad fun.

[Snoctopus]

I'd like to hope they redesign the RR effect for Arrow/Spear, and make all buffs aoe at standard potency by default. That'd be awesome.

[ebil]

Q20. Are there any plans to make any type of adjustments for astrologians?

A20. We’re thinking of making adjustments where astrologians will be able to use Spread while not in combat, or shortening the recast time for Shuffle. We have received feedback on how Lightspeed is hard to use, and so we’re planning to make adjustments so you can clearly feel the strength of this. As for Collective Unconscious and Celestial Opposition, instead of adjusting the stats similar to other healer actions, we’ll make astrologian-like adjustments where they switch between stances. We’ll make these adjustments without waiting for Alexander (Savage).

Not very specific indeed but they're adressing some of my gripes with AST.

[Burningthought]

So there was some talk about AST getting buffs, but is there anything specific about what it is? All I've heard is that cards are getting adjustments (probably the spread/shuffle thing?) and maybe stance switching will be a thing? If you can switch stances mid-battle I can safely say goodbye to leveling WHM and SCH, because that shit will be mad fun.

You've probably already figured it out by now but I stole this from a post on reddit:

-Card's effect will be easier to utilize.
-Spread will be able to be used out of combat.
-They are making Lightspeed to feel more like a buff than a "nerf".
-Shuffle's cooldown reduced.
-Collective Unconscious and Celestial Opposition's power and effect determinated will be more freely usable, akin to stance-dancing.

Q20. Are there any plans to make any type of adjustments for astrologians?

A20. We’re thinking of making adjustments where astrologians will be able to use Spread while not in combat, or shortening the recast time for Shuffle. We have received feedback on how Lightspeed is hard to use, and so we’re planning to make adjustments so you can clearly feel the strength of this. As for Collective Unconscious and Celestial Opposition, instead of adjusting the stats similar to other healer actions, we’ll make astrologian-like adjustments where they switch between stances. We’ll make these adjustments without waiting for Alexander (Savage).

[Snoctopus]

Saw this on Reddit, reposting here to see if this math is correct:

(Original link: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...aiding/cswjdl6 )

We can definitely "Napkin" Math it. To be fair, I was more so comparing ASTs ability to increase dps vs a WHM's
I will need some help here though.
We need to figure out the chance that an AST can Draw Balance or Arrow every 30 seconds which is pretty much 1/3 of a chance that they will get a card that will directly influence damage out put. I will neglect spear ATM because I find that utilizing spear properly can be rather difficult.
So basically there is a 33% chance that AST will increase a single persons DPS by 10%(Really rough estimate since it is harder to measure arrow) 3.3% every 30 seconds. Given its duration of 15 seconds that 3.3% changes to ~1.65% increase in DPS. Fey wind would be a rough 1.5% DPS increase for the whole PT if used every 60 seconds. Obviously Fey wind wins out here.
We then need to consider Royal Road. Since it takes a minute to fully process Royal Road (Ignoring Spread) and we have 1/3 a chance that Royal Road will be AoE but at half efficiency. I'm really bad with probability math but I will still try.
Basically since the potency is half we need to multiply the RNG by the direct output oe 5x.33 = 1.65%. Considering it lasts for 15seconds and can only be done once every minute that brings the DPS increase down too 1.65x.25 = .415. Basically given fair RNG it whittles down to a .4% increase in party dps.
The bonus to RR is that every effect will give you a positive boost.
You also have a 2/3 chance to increase a single DPS by 1.65 % ( Same numbers as a normal balance but if you don't need Spire, Ewer, or Bole this is a great way to return DPS value to them, I am also running off the assumption that enhanced Balance is 15%... It could be 25%? If I have this wrong someone let me know please.)
TL;DR given perfect RNG and ignoring Spread, Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation.
An AST will either Increase Party dps by .415% or a single members DPS by 1.65% While Fey wind is roughly a 1.5% increase to the whole party.
Another note: If an AST prayed to byregot before every pull and sinked a RR + Balance/Spear every 60 seconds they would be looking at a 1.5% Party increase Every time they pair it with celestial OP and a 1.25% increase every time without Celestial OP. Rough guess is that every other draw would have OP so you could just average those out and get a 1.375% increase in DPS. Again my math could suck on this.
Note this is extreme napkin math and there could be some mistakes here. I will need to help to correct those mistakes as my mind is feebles.
Huge note: It is really hard( for me at least) to measure how much Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation add to the equation. It is also really big to note that Spread can be used to hold Balance or other cards during down time.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, with best possible draws, AST is only aiding party dps by .4%.

That seems like a really shitty low number for our weaknesses. Is this accurate? I'm not a math hero.

[Elcura]

Too many variables to count for, and like the guy said Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition fuck with everything (and considering you should definitely be keeping at least time dilation on CD...) but that also ignores that cards also account for survivability (spear/ewer/bole) as well as damage (balance/arrow/spear(?)) so having them not be a major increase seems reasonable.

Also really hard to say what the best possible draws are for fights, considering that boles tend to let healers DPS too.

AST card game is too complex.

[Snoctopus]

Floor 4 of Alex was rough as fuck, but with mch's mp turret thing and mage's ballad I was fine. I think if people know ahead of time there's gonna be a need for upkeep we will be okay. I abused the shit out of ED for taking care of extra damage and got into the habit of using synergy whenever it was up to help with healing. It's and extra free cure per cast basically.

I didn't use Helios as much as I thought I would, mostly stuck with benefic and A.Helios for raid wide damage and that seemed to work out okay. Keep Ewers up on yourself as much as possible. It wasn't a pleasant run, I would definitely like to see something buffed somewhere to help out with avoidable damage. I kinda felt like I was putting a lot of strain on the whm that tagged along, but we were able to stack medica II, regen, a.benefic and a.helios during the last phase making the 3.2k dot not really matter. Do not get behind on healing and make sure your hp stays high for that shit. Explosions and tethers will fuck you up in a heartbeat. I managed it at ilvl 173 tonight. I'm hoping once I get my hive weapon and accessories upgrade it'll make it easier, but we shall see.

Edit: Buffs also felt worthless, using up a GCD for it meant I was behind on healing someone. I had to Draw > Benefic II/I > Use/Spread/Hold. It didn't seem worth the hassle letting the tank dip below 50% HP just so I can get 3 spires in a row. Even Bole's, Arrows and Balances felt kinda useless since a majority of the party members were spread out for mechanics, it meant that I couldn't hit everyone with expanded. I just started popping them out on a random DPS and hope they got a use for them.

I wanted to chime in on this.

I had a rough, rough time with A4. It's the first time playing the game where I felt like I was completely wasting everyone's time. The first two phases were manageable, but the last phase I was getting so frustrated wishing I just had one more button I could push, or just a little more MP, or anything.

I probably should be using helios more overall in that phase than I did, but I get worried when I start using helios that the tank is going to fall behind and die (which happened anyways). I found myself really, really wishing they would make synasty work with helios.

[Elcura]

A4 isn't bad at all.

It's mostly just Benefic spam with A.Helios before orbs. I've done it with a WHM friend and it was such a breeze due to double stacking regens. Hammer debuff was basically ignored. With a SCH smart deployments prevented a lot of AoE damage which means I can just let regen/fairy take care of topping people off. Synastry also means you can cure PT members while also keeping the MT healthy, then whatever cards you get you can use selfishly.

Benefic 2 procs also help with upkeep, and using ES whenever multitask cures needed. I didn't find much use for A.Helios (outside of orbs and maybe adds) or normal Helios that I wasn't just covering with Benefic.

The usual AST buff song and dance, but SE isn't buffing heals afaik so you gotta be wily about healing because AST isn't a brute force healer at all.

[cute]

I like Spear on MCH with low re cast on Reloading.

[Burningthought]

A4 isn't bad at all.

It's mostly just Benefic spam with A.Helios before orbs. I've done it with a WHM friend and it was such a breeze due to double stacking regens. Hammer debuff was basically ignored. With a SCH smart deployments prevented a lot of AoE damage which means I can just let regen/fairy take care of topping people off. Synastry also means you can cure PT members while also keeping the MT healthy, then whatever cards you get you can use selfishly.

Benefic 2 procs also help with upkeep, and using ES whenever multitask cures needed. I didn't find much use for A.Helios (outside of orbs and maybe adds) or normal Helios that I wasn't just covering with Benefic.

The usual AST buff song and dance, but SE isn't buffing heals afaik so you gotta be wily about healing because AST isn't a brute force healer at all.

I can't put on my finger on exactly what changed between A4 clear and my subsequent clears but the fight is a lot easier. I think it had to do some of the people in the group not having a grasp on mechanics. The rest of my A4's have been a lot easier on healing, my only issue now is that if DPS is a little slow near the end I start to run out of MP. I've had to go through A4 without mch or brds and it kinda sucks without the extra breathing room. You just have to make sure that you aren't overcuring and that you really weigh Benefic over Helios in certain situations to save MP.

Synastry is also a really important ability that separates bad ASTs from the good ones.

Cards became easier to deal with as I got more used to the fight. When your habits set in its easier to churn out cards during the fight. If i'm having a lot of shitty rolls I won't worry about Royal Road or Spreading and i'll just pop the plain card buff and add time dilation or CO just so dps's don't have to wait any longer.

Also, AST+AST sucks dick for any activity. I'm hoping that the tweaks next week will make nocturnal sect worth it.

[Damane]

dunno nocturnal sect was very awesome for alex 4. coupled with a sch dealing with orbs was no issue because both healers could constantly preshield themself and eat them while also haveing enough healing powers behind their asses with benefic 2 etc. also aspected benefic was nice since you can shield yourself/anyone on the move if needed especially nice during the poison debuff phase