Dark Knight Discussion

[AlastorTGN]

Well what I use atm is setting the cursor so it's locked to where the 'pointer' is and that way with the camera angled a certain way it' will always be at my feet as I press it it's just setting it off asap that's the issue sometimes.

[Ragnus]

I'm assuming that Abyssal Drain is something to use in the middle of tanking a huge pack and doesn't replace Unmend + Unleash on the pull.

[Niiro]

Pretty much.

Unleash is less likely to miss mobs when you're pulling since the mobs collapse on you rather than eachother.

Beyond that, once they're packed together the 2 are more or less interchangeable, their potency/mp is exactly the same, Drain is just a bit more damage and a bit more MP per GCD, if you have a million mobs wailing on you such that you can't spend MP faster than Blood Price is recovering it Drain is good to not let that MP go to waste.

Using it with DA can be a nice way to blow excess MP but the cost of DA+Abyssal is way too high to be sustainable, even with a ton of mobs wailing on you.

Also for really, really big pulls or ones with mobs that have large hitboxes they can displace eachother enough that Abyssal may not hit them all, it's not often this will happen but unless mobs are really, really tightly packed you're generally better off just using Unleash and not having to worry about it.

edit: also worth noting that Abyssal will break combos while Unleash won't

[Carth]

I only use DA'd Abyssal drain in dungeons so my healers feel more comfortable with dpsing and not blow heals on me 'cause I'm DRK. Objectively Abyssal is only strictly useful for slightly higher burst damage.

[AlastorTGN]

Is a big pull rotation for DRK really (after the initial pull and unleash grab) Dark Passenger - Salted Earth - Scourge everything (if there are 4-5 enemies) - Abyssal Drain spam?

[Seravi Edalborez]

If you have enough incoming MP via Blood Price to make Abyssal's extra cost negligible, it's worth spamming. If MP is a concern, lay off it and just spam Unleash. Use first Dark Arts on DP, use further on Abyssal if MP allows.

Scourge spam depends on number of mobs and kill speed. 500 pot if it's on the whole 30s, vs Unleash on 5x being 500, Abyssal being 600. If Scourge lasts full duration on the first mob and ~half on the last, you can ballpark the potency to somewhere around ~400 per application (100 initial, DoT is 400 at max and 200 at half duration). So it's kind of a wash.

Put Scourge on tough guys or if pull will definitely last more than 20s, for 4-maybe5 mobs. For 5+, spam AoE always.

[AlastorTGN]

Okay, take the first big pull of Fractal into consideration (thinking about it, I split the first lot with the Dreadnaught type with the puppet ads but is it possible to pull everything thing right up until boss 1 and has anyone done this?) Scourge the Dreadnaught ad, DP, Salted Earth and then spam AD?

I don't like using DA on Dak Passenger though, I hear for non raids, DA Dark Passenger and Dark Arts Dark Dance (fuck saying Dark this many times in a sentence) is amazing but seems to be overkill to me.

[solracht]

the door past the dreadnaught is closed until you kill some of the mobs

[AlastorTGN]

rip my theorycraft of a big HG PLD pull just now. (which I do for the second corridor before second boss anyway)

[FHT]

I don't like using DA on Dak Passenger though, I hear for non raids, DA Dark Passenger and Dark Arts Dark Dance (fuck saying Dark this many times in a sentence) is amazing but seems to be overkill to me.

I'd say its situational, for the situation in Fractal going DA > Dark Passenger on big packs could be better than DA Abyssal Drain. Its a good DPS move topped with a blind debuff, for less MP than Abyssal. I alway use it when the DPS is good.

[Niiro]

DA+Dance is purely defensive.

DA+Passenger has both offensive and defensive benefits.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm saying DA'd Passenger solely for the potency per target. +100 per mob x 10 mobs. That's like tacking on an Unleash to your DP. The blind is just icing.

Like, DA has to be viewed in terms of how much potency it gives you. CnS is +350pot, Souleater is +120, DP is +100pot per target. You will typically just use raw CnS in a trash pull for MP and DP just blows it away on a huge pull anyways.

[Ragnus]

Any tips for pre-Abyssal large pulls? It seems like no matter what I do, I get shithoused and the healer gets pissed despite being the one suggesting large pulls.

[Niiro]

Use cooldowns, update gear, etc.

Damage taken and required healing in exp dungeons 50-60 is going to be wonky by nature of non-uniform gear progression and not knowing when and where to use all your cooldowns for each pull (since you only do each dungeon a handful of times).

Getting Abyssal doesn't change much, the MP cost of DA doesn't let you spam it for HP recovery (you can toss out a DA+Abyssal in a pinch but the MP is generally better spent just spamming Abyssal itself for damage).

[Kainos]

is it just me or does dark have a higher skill ceiling/more complex than other jobs? Hit 52 and already feeling overwhelmed with the amount of job actions especially when dark arts comes into play. Few questions so I can improve-

Should I respec to all STR? I keep seeing mixed views, but read that all VIT hurts u when living dead is up
What skills do u weave in with the gcd? Stance dancing with grit? Blow defensive CDs when up or save for big hits, shadow wall?

Just looking for some tips on how u guys play, so much going on with this job in addition to mp management. I like it but seems hard to be good at maybe I'm just a bad player lol

[Kiarax]

I don't think "complex" is necessarily the right word, but I do agree that it's one of the harder classes to play optimally, if not the hardest. Most of it stems from just how active it is compared to other classes. The actual rotation/priority system you use for your combos is straightforward but the sheer amount of buttons you have to constantly be hitting on top of worrying about your other responsibilities as a tank definitely makes it feel like you have way more on your plate than other classes. This also varies heavily on a fight by fight basis though, anything light on mechanics and DRK doesn't really feel any different to playing my MNK, but doing something like A3S on DRK is a hundred times harder than MNK.

As for your questions:

Should I respec to all STR?

Eventually it should be something you want to do, but it also depends entirely on how you're gearing and what you're doing. To put it as short as possible if you're not doing Savage Alexander you'll probably want full STR attributes and accessories, if you are doing Savage Alexander what you want to do with your attributes is going to vary a lot based on how good your left side gear is. The better your left side is, the more you can get away with focusing on STR on the right side. You can honestly just think of your 35 attribute points as another accessory. When you first hit 60 you might find yourself using a mix of STR and VIT accessories and in that case, swapping that 35 VIT to 35 STR might just mean you're using an extra VIT accessory on the right instead of a STR one, in which case it's making next to no difference anyway. If you can afford melded accessories or are using 5 STR accessories you should absolutely swap those attribute points to STR though.

What skills do u weave in with the gcd? Stance dancing with grit? Blow defensive CDs when up or save for big hits, shadow wall?

Offensive cooldowns should always be used pretty much as and when they come up. For defensive CDs there's no simple answer, what and when you should be popping them depends on how much stuff you're pulling. Ideally you have some idea of what's coming up in a dungeon, if you know a big pull is coming up don't blow Shadow Wall on the small pack you're currently finishing, pop it for the big pack, pop Convalescence as it's about to wear off, etc. Grit usage is again entirely dependent on what you're doing and how good your healer is. For trash pulls in dungeons you should have it on most of the time and can switch it off for the last mob or two of a pack, dungeon bosses you can probably keep it off unless your healer is bad or you're having enmity problems.

[AlastorTGN]

How do you guys manage pull to pull MP levels? Do you go all out or try to balance it out so you'll have enough for every mass pull? Because I don't see how it's possible to keep up an optimal rotation for every pull in a speedrun of Fractal for example, spamming Abyssal Drain, DA Dark Passenger and what not.

[The Stig]

The trick is to use Blood Price on pull (or when everything is on you), not when your MP bar is about empty:

Unleash/grab everything > Blood Price (after 2 unleashes usually) > spam Unleash/Abyssal Drain > when Blood Price wears off, MP should be 80% or more unless WHM is Holying, in which case you'll need to plan accordingly

When Blood Price wears off, you've established lots of threat, and you can switch to Soul Eater combo. If everything dies within 1 minute, Blood Price is available for the next pull, otherwise if the DPS is lacking (either low or no one is using area damage), then you're probably going to be able to use it again, and pull less next pull.

I would say Dark Passenger especially with Dark Arts is not worth using that much unless you're confident you'll get all of the MP back. It's a massive toll on your MP for one attack. But if fights are taking long due to the 2 scenarios I mentioned above then go for it, if everything is melting then I rather not use it to keep pace.

[Destinye]

Hm, I think it's because the new jobs start at 30 so you already have a fair bit to get used to, then you have some fairly important utility skills 50-60 that you'll have to get used to juggling (like when to use Slice & Dice with and without Darkarts and yes it happens.)

Dark also has the MP thing to worry about. I personally went full STR spec and shift around fending/slaying accessories depending on what I'm doing so I suggest the STR spec once you're comfortable. When I solo tank Ravana for new people I'm at 21k with food and full vit accessories and STR spec, so I take blinding blades solo and double preys without needing to use living dead..but when I do have to use LD, that HP doesn't hurt, as it's simply healing FOR your max, not topping you off..and hitting 14-18k heals is nothing for actual healers.

Stance dancing grit is very easy but can be MP heavy kinda if you do it wrong but it also has to do with your party and gear. Like WAR/PLD you'll want to be very weary of your hate, but if you have a ninja that solves that problem.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Dahkness! Dahkness!!