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  1. #141



    Spoiler: show
    There's no base class, all actions for new jobs are Job actions.

  2. #142
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post


    Spoiler: show
    There's no base class, all actions for new jobs are Job actions.
    Thanks! (but now you made me feel dumb D:, should have known this.)

  3. #143
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiurily View Post
    because if you need to move to dodge something, why not toggle gauss off, hit skill+move, toggle gauss back on, compared to using feint?
    Because that's less damage.

    Gauss+Feint is 156pot.
    Split without Gauss is 140pot.
    There's no reason to use Slug or Clean without a proc (and if you had a proc, you wouldn't need to use Feint in the first place).

  4. #144
    Puppetmaster
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    you can't just look at the raw potency without factoring in things like procs or auto attacks

    there's 2 things really when comparing gauss off split vs feint; this is really only in the situation that you need to move and your next gcd would be split, and you have no procs available to use

    a. are you lucky enough to get an auto in that 1s time frame that gauss is off. if you do it's definitely better, tp and dmg wise. you can delay the your gauss barrel by a bit to give more time to get that auto, but it seems pretty hard to control reliably so far
    b. the value of procs on split without gauss. it's something that's actually hard (for me) to put a number on, but i see it as a 50% chance to give you a net gain of +40 potency on your next combo gcd, which comes out to +20 potency average (and then that proc gives you a 50% chance to give you a net gain of +20 over itself, or +10?)

  5. #145
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    If you have a proc then we aren't even having a discussion; you use your proc (with Gauss up) and move on the run. So by definition, we are discussing situations in which your next GCD is Split (without Rapid Fire).

    I don't know how compelling of an argument auto-attack damage is in a situation where you are stopping your GCD because you need to run; you may not be facing the mob. The proc potency is a valid point. However, activating/deactivating Gauss is not exactly free; you are using that when you could be using a buff or one of MCH's pile of other oGCD actions. So there is that.

  6. #146
    Girlboy
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    Am I the only MCN that gets these tanks that will move all of the mobs for no apparent reason as soon as a bishop is deployed?

  7. #147
    Vuitton
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaMolly View Post
    Am I the only MCN that gets these tanks that will move all of the mobs for no apparent reason as soon as a bishop is deployed?
    It's been 50/50 with me. Some tanks seem to instinctively know to color within the lines. Some tanks like to drag the mobs someplace else after I deploy bishop on every pull. Where you going?! These aren't pets we're taking for a walk.

  8. #148
    Girlboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuitton View Post
    It's been 50/50 with me. Some tanks seem to instinctively know to color within the lines. Some tanks like to drag the mobs someplace else after I deploy bishop on every pull. Where you going?! These aren't pets we're taking for a walk.
    I'm wondering if some tanks may think the shockwaves are an attack. Either way I wish they'd stop. >.>

  9. #149
    Tom Wilson will never be good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaMolly View Post
    I'm wondering if some tanks may think the shockwaves are an attack. Either way I wish they'd stop. >.>
    Some definitely do as they run right when it starts aoeing, some are just doding mob moves/aoe and running all over, some are just dumb and pull, stop, then move way away again for no reason right after I deploy. I've had plenty who also stopped, when i deployed it ahead of the pt to hit paeon/ballad while we run to the next group, and look at it and wonder what the hell this new enemy is. I started waiting for them to stop to deploy(instead of assuming where they will logically stop) and also using Rook more when I find they are running out of range too much, as at least then I know I'm doing dmg and don't have to fiddle with it more.

  10. #150
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    What are people using for AOE opener?

    I'm thinking something like deploy, overcharge, HE, RS, Hot Shot, B4B, Reload, Grenado, Reassemble, QR, Grenado, Wildfire, Rapid, Grenado, Ricochet, Grenado, Gauss, Grenado, Suppressive, blah blah

    I've tried several different rotations and it always feels super unoptimized and clunky.

  11. #151
    Old Odin
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    Reassemble only applies on the first mob, for what it's worth.

    On packs of 4 or less with a somewhat weak co-DPS I'd do Lead on everything before beginning AoE spam, though that's admittedly a longer wait on starting Reload.

  12. #152

    I've just been using Reload on cooldown between pulls, the bonus damage from ammo and the overall gain from more Reload use overall from not delaying it's use is gonna be way more than waiting until after Hot Shot to use it.

    ie. Reload before a pull -> pull -> turret/whatever damage buffs -> Spread shot -> Quick reload -> Spread shot x5 -> out of ammo -> Hot Shot -> either proceed with single target or continue AoEing

    I generally prefer using Spread to Grenado, it's ever so slightly more TP efficient but more importantly it has a much larger spread so if mobs aren't tightly packed it's more likely to hit them all.

  13. #153
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Grenado is more raw DPS, so I generally use it until/unless Invig is on cooldown.

  14. #154
    Old Odin
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    It's the same thing DRG does.

    Long-term AoE (because co-DPS isn't good at it / stuff is beefy): HT>RoT, Spread
    Short-term: Doomspike, Grenado

  15. #155
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Setting TP costs and ammo effects aside (Lead will wear off in around 11 GCDs):

    Lead x4 + Grenado x11 = 7080 potency
    Lead x4 + Spread x11 = 6200 potency

    Grenado x4 x15 = 7200 potency
    Spread x4 x15 = 6000 potency

    So basically, if you have enough TP to spam Grenado until everything is dead, you should just use Grenado. If you need to use Spread for TP reasons, you should probably DoT everything first (with 4 mobs or less).

  16. #156

    The issue I see is if you're pre-loading ammo before the pull it would be a waste on Leads regardless.

  17. #157
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Yeah, but then we also get into alignment of ammo with other CDs, using ammo on Hot Shot, etc. It's always going to be a complicated issue.

  18. #158
    Tom Wilson will never be good.
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    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...achinist-Guide

    AoE
    First, keep up Hot Shot + Gauss Barrel + Bishop Autoturret. Then decide depending on the number of targets as well as the encounter length.
    If the targets will live for less than 30 seconds, use Grenado Shot.
    If the targets will live more than 30 seconds, use Spread Shot.
    Once your Invigorate is used, and you have a Warrior/Dragoon/Bard in your party, switch to Rook Autoturret and use Promotion.

    Case 1: Hot Shot into Grenado Shot
    Let's set the GCD for Machinist to be around 2.4 seconds.
    The TP use for Hot Shot isn't included as we start at 1000 TP; Grenado Shot costs 160 TP so,
    TP: 80-240-560-720-880-1040-1200
    60 TP per 3 seconds regen, 6 GCDs (6 * 2.4/3 = 4.8 rounded down to 4 * 60 = 240) 240 TP regen means 1 more Grenado Shot can be fit in.
    TP: 1200-1360
    Invigorate happens as well as Reload so +450 TP along with 60 TP regen and 40 TP remaining means we can fit in 3 more Grenado Shot.
    TP: 1360-1520-1680-1840
    Converted into Potency this is: 120 + 151* 10 (10 Grenado Shot) = 1630 Total Potency without factoring in the mobs. With the mobs factored, it becomes:
    3 Mobs = 120 + 1510 * 3 = 4650 in 10 GCDs = 10 * 2.4 = 24s, 4650/24s = 194 potency per second
    4 Mobs = 120 + 1510 * 4 = 6160 = 257 potency per second
    5 Mobs = 120 + 1510 * 5 = 7670 = 320 potency per second
    6 Mobs = 120 + 1510 * 6 = 9180 = 383 potency per second
    7 Mobs = 120 + 1510 * 7 = 10690 = 445 potency per second

    To compare with Case 2, the time was extended to 31.2s, which gives 2 ticks of TP regen, 120 TP which is only enough for a Hot Shot.
    3 Mobs = 120 * 2 + 1510 * 3 = 4770 in 13 GCDs = 13 * 2.4 = 31.2s, 4770/31.2s = 152 potency per second
    4 Mobs = 120 * 2 + 1510 * 4 = 6280= 201 potency per second
    5 Mobs = 120 * 2 + 1510 * 5 = 7790 = 250 potency per second
    6 Mobs = 120 * 2 + 1510 * 6 = 9300 = 298 potency per second
    7 Mobs = 120 * 2 + 1510 * 7 = 10810 = 346 potency per second

    Case 2: Hot Shot into Spread Shot
    The TP use for Hot Shot isn't included as we start at 1000 TP; Spread Shot costs 130 TP so,
    TP: 80-210-340-470-600-730-860-990
    60 TP per 3 seconds regen, 7 GCDs (7 * 2.4/3 = 5.6 rounded down to 5 * 60 = 300) 300 TP regen and 90 TP remaining means 3 more Spread Shot can be fit in.
    TP: 990-1120-1250-1380
    Invigorate happens as well as Reload so +450 TP along with 60 TP regen and 0 TP remaining means we can fit in 3 more Spread Shot.
    TP: 1380-1510-1640-1770
    Converted into Potency this is: 120 + 126 * 13 (13 Spread Shot) = 1485 Total Potency without factoring in the mobs. With the mobs factored, it becomes:
    3 Mobs = 120 + 1638 * 3 = 5034 in 13 GCDs = 13 * 2.4 = 31.2s, 5034/31.2s = 161 potency per second
    4 Mobs = 120 + 1638 * 4 = 6672 = 213 potency per second
    5 Mobs = 120 + 1638 * 5 = 8310 = 266 potency per second
    6 Mobs = 120 + 1638 * 6 = 9948 = 319 potency per second
    7 Mobs = 120 + 1638 * 6 = 11586 = 371 potency per second

  19. #159
    Girlboy
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    I don't actually have a good AoE rotation, I usually just fire off a Hot Shot, use Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye, deploy a promo'd Rook and alternate Grenado and Spread with a Ricochet mixed in here and there. Invigorate as needed. Then I reduce heat and simmer for 15 mins.

    I need to get an AoE rotation down. :/

  20. #160

    Shouldn't be putting out the Rook until you really, really need TP, the amount of damage Bishop puts out in a group of mobs is pretty massive.

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