Machinist - New Headless Running DPS

[chichicha]

I don't see one here.
Started to play this, at level 33 only.
Hope the high level (in 5 days) can give us some suggestion.
Apparently, guild in Foundation
Hard to miss the NPC to unlocked.
Reminder : upon unlocked, please do the available quest for Hot Shot.

Playstyle, my initial impression -> ARR Bard
Hot Shot
Split Shot to proc Slug
Resembled and/ or Ammunition Slug
Apply DoT
Heart - to final blow!

Ps: as I don't see any MCH thread after looking into Adcance, If there is another thread exist, forum admin please help removing this.

[Lebzile]

Love this job, almost 50 with it and my favorite story so far with us engaging is fukken Mortal Kombat yo.

Oh and the lolDRG returns in the story.

[Intense]

I am 53, almost 54 now. I am concerned about its DPS dependability in a future raid setting. It just doesn't seem to be holding up to what my nin did at an equal ilvl...

[Niiro]

Ranged DPS aren't supposed to hold up to melee DPS.

[chichicha]

After reading some Job action, it's interesting to see a pet doing pure auto-attack.
However, how much it will top your dps, is to be tested

[Intense]

Ranged DPS aren't supposed to hold up to melee DPS.

Fair enough, but then I question what this is meant to be in the first place. I haven't tested it against my BRD personally but from what I've read on reddit, it also doesn't hold up to that either (the commenter in particular I am referencing tested his identically geared MCH to his BRD against a striking dummy). It has party buff elements borrowed from BRD which also penalize your DPS for using and makes you work pretty hard just to not hold up. As it stands, I don't see why someone would pick a MCH over a BRD.

When I say 'dependability,' its heavily dependent on RNG (50% proc rate) during times when your CDs are down. Otherwise you're just spamming 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, etc. until your CD is up or you happen to get a proc.

[Niiro]

From what I've heard, yea, MCH sounds like a job they built around certain concepts but did fuck all to translate those concepts into effective gameplay.

ex: "They could have a consumable ammo buff that enhances certain skills!"

-> The reload cooldown is far too long to grant any consistency in damage output and ammo is consumed by skills that gain nothing from it, forcing you to either use a sub-optimal rotation or waste ammo

Also known as the "least worst" rotation problem.

Reload should have either worked like Aetherflow or had a very short (10s) cooldown and granted 1 ammo per use so it could be utilized regularly like Dark Arts.

[Voyage1970]

They could have gotten creative and made "Reload" a buff over time effect that slowly builds ammo stacks after using it. 30s Recast with 30s duration granting an ammo stack every tick. Make Split Shot a 50% chance for Slug Shot to not consume ammo and same with Slug Shot > Clean Shot. Split Shot itself consumes no ammo. The bonus to Slug Shot and Clean Shot come from Ammo itself instead of a proc based system.

Now add skills that consume multiple ammo stacks for a big burst hit like something akin to Sidewinder where the more ammo stacks you have the higher the damage scales or simply a big hit that consumes 3 ammo at a time. Your decisions become based around either lowering your DPS for a chance at a big burst or keeping consistently high DPS but lacking in any burst. At least then you would be utilizing the ammo mechanic all the time instead of for a few seconds every minute.

[Spider-Dan]

The real problem, as I see it, is ammo being consumed when you don't want it to be (FYI, even "unaffected" WS still get a 20 potency buff from ammo, FWIW).

It's like if Wrath were consumed every time WAR did any ability. It's just dumb and (if not for the lame 20 pot increase) it looks like a straight up bug.

[Sho]

For me, there are only a few problems with the job. The first is Hot Shot consuming ammunition -- no one really cares about Hot Shot being boosted as it's only used for the effect. They could go a step further and remove it from the GCD and give it a 30 second cooldown as well. Clean Shot should be removed from the list of ammo and simply have its potency boosted to match. Next, Surpressive Fire should be given way more range. Like 20 yalms like Shoulder Tackle, or up to 25. There's no point to running in to use a stun as a ranged job unless the stun itself has an unresistable effect (most people will play with Gauss Barrel equipped).

Spider-Dan, I actually believe that ammunition stacks being consumed by all 2.5 GC WSes is the intended effect. There's just no incentive at all into boosting them (and in fact gets in people's way when speaking of Hot Shot) -- everyone is shoehorned into boosting their Split Shot rotation. If they want to boost the job's effectiveness some, they could allow using stacks of ammo to boost the effects of the other shots as well -- stun/silence shot effects (increase duration by 2 or 3 seconds), make Foot Graze an unbreakable bind with ammunition. Stuff like that. Remove ammo consumption from Hot Shot and Clean Shot, keep it on Lead Shot.

For the added effect on Split/Slug Shot, they should change it to an added effect that increases in 10% increments until a successful shot is fired. This effectively will end the 1-1-1-1-1-1 spam that can unfortunately go well into 10+ attempts down to a max 6 attempts if you assume 50 -> 100% over time. If not this, they could limit the effect to stack up to 80%, keep their RNG system going, and effectively boost damage without doing much else to the class.

The way the job feels right now seems incomplete and like they are using the community as a test bed for a later patch.

[Sho]

So there's a bug that has been going around on Reddit in discussion. Rapid Fire not only eliminates the cast time from Gauss Barrel shots, but from any skill that requires a cast time, including mounts, items, Teleport/Return, and finally Limit Breaks. This could be insanely broken for Frontlines PvP, if the Adrenaline Rush in there is pretty potent. The effect lasts the full duration of 15 seconds as well.

[Intense]

An idea I have is to make the cumulative damage at the end of Wildfire be AOE.

[cryy]

Reading through this thread there is some ideas that probably could be done to MCH. My biggest concern is the rotation of the class with the 50% chance for a combo on 2 of the main shots just makes the class feel like your spamming 1111111111 forever without ammo then once your ammo skills are on CD you are back to the 1111111111 with little hopes for 2 or 3. I also feel Gauss barrel is the most useless thing ever. Literally only used for the lv. 60 class skill. I feel like the turrets are in a good place especially with Hypercharge. I never expected MCH to do as much as a lancer or monk's dps but when its lower then most classes even if they aren't so good at their class then it just feels undertuned.

[Seravi Edalborez]

One thing that didn't immediately click with me is that for Split>Slug>Clean, when you get a proc you don't have to use it in the "combo". So if you get a Cleaner Shot proc you don't have to go 123. You can go 12 (get Clean Shot), 13, and work with procs from there. I dunno if it's more or less optimal.

Or more simply: once you get a proc they do not have to be done "in order". Use Split every other WS all the time. Gives you time to see what proc you fished on the previous WS. Weave off-GCD after stuff ala Fireweaving on BLM to see your procs quicker, if you are so inclined. I dunno if it hurts you with Gauss on. Only do 123 if you have Reload on. Use Clean Shot above Slug Shot if possible.

[Voyage1970]

It's actually more useful to that staggered rotation with Reload on. Basically you want to maximize the amount of ammo used on WSs that actually fully benefit from the 100% Additional Effect procs instead of say Clean Shot that only gets a 20 potency buff. Going 1 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 2 > 3 with Reload + Quick Reload wastes 2 ammos on Clean Shot when you could do 1 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 2 which only wastes 1 ammo on Clean Shot but still provides buffs for every shot in your rotation.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Ah I get you. I haven't actually played MCH higher than 30 yet, planning on trying it after DRK.

It's a whole different idealogy from any other DPS.

[Niiro]

Going 1 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 2 > 3 with Reload + Quick Reload wastes 2 ammos on Clean Shot when you could do 1 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 2 which only wastes 1 ammo on Clean Shot but still provides buffs for every shot in your rotation.

See, that's actually a good combo system, the caveat being you have to forgo any and all other WSs during it, meaning if your DoT and buff timers don't like up right you either need to waste TP refreshing them too soon (then use reload) or waste damage by letting them fall off.

[Voyage1970]

Yeah the ultimate problem is Clean Shot and other WSs without added effects consuming ammo to begin with but as of right now it's the best you can do with a bad situation.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Ammo is only really used for 123 right? It seems like they would be better off restricting ammo usage to 12 then. I dunno.

Or add ammo effects to everything. Or make the cooldown shorter (40 or 50 seconds instead of 60 would be a world of difference). Or up the potency on ammo to higher than 20.

Something has to give.

[Spider-Dan]

The job would be a lot more straightforward if ammo was restricted to 12. Making every WS use ammo almost feels like intentional sabotage; balance-by-annoyance.