WHM Melee random crap

[RyaWHM]

I can't help but feel, in any situation, the answer is to not use Dagan. Giving yourself MP is always more productive than giving yourself HP, and Mystic Boon is going to do a better job of that than Dagan.

--> earlier in this thread:

Dagan could be pretty great when fighting resisty stuffs like slimes or elementals, where boon would be all dumpy.

... also, I know this is a stretch, but if you're silenced (and out of echos?), or can't cast for some other reason (momentary risk of magic aggro?) ... that could make the HP useful.

Kill would still be slower versus using hexa strike and just curing yourself.

Can we hypothetimath this a little, as a MeleeWHM community?

I thought we were usually 50:50 on WS/dot damage (or is that just KC users? or, only outside abyssea?) -- If that's the case, and half your damage is doubled (rya doesn't know empy aftermath rate) then you need to be spending:
WITHOUT Dagan: 25% of your time casting self-cures
WITH Dagan: 0% of your time casting self-cures

...which is stupid, and I just proved Dagan is inefficient?

Help me out guys! I just think it's an interesting new toy, at least situationally, so I'd love to have some mathy details figured on it. Few more hours of FFXI vacation left, spend them well, spend them here!

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'm hardly qualified to make any real assessments, but its pretty easy to get a cure5 off ridiculously fast, and then be done for a while. Time spent curing shouldn't be immense.

[Alkimi]

I find it's usually skewed more towards WS damage.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...Untitled-9.png

From a while back but not much has changed. Found myself overloading on TP an awful lot. Because of the high damage hexa does it wasn't worth using on any mob with under 50% HP. If you don't have KC then melee damage will probably be higher.

In this case I was using Dagan perhaps 1 in 4 WS and making full use of meds, so might be more towards melee damage if you have to do a lot of curing. Only reason I used Dagan is because I was tanking most mobs and it does cure a decent amount of HP, maybe 5-600 at 100-150% TP and the MP is just a bonus. It cut down the amount I had to cure myself.

Mystic Boon usually outperforms Dagan, but it depends on the mob like Rya said. If it's something squishy you can end up with stuff like:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...029_160916.png

Think that was a skele with 300% TP, off handing Molva Maul and crap loads of buffs just to see.

But with something horrible like ghosts or slimes then Dagan might be better, and you'd also have the aftermath as a bonus.

[Ganukay]

Finished level 85 a few days ago, been having a lot of fun with Dagan. Solo'd a couple abyssea NMs, killed random stuff all over.

Just from eyeballing it in the last few days, the ODD looks to be under 50% (30-40% or so). Same with other empyreans, the ODD doesn't work on your offhand club.

In abyssea, it appears to be about equivalent as far as Dagan +ODD vs. using Hexa Strike goes. Double and triple attack from VV and apoc helps make the ODD worth it. Outside abyssea, it wasn't nearly as good, but that was just what I saw from soloing mobs in sea. I plan on doing some parses eventually to get some actual numbers involved, not just eyeballing.

[Clave]

That doesn't really add up. DA and TA affect both hands, not just the ODD club... it just means you get TP faster to WS with, which if anything, would favor hexa spam. Add in crit rate/damage atmas and it's not even a contest. Speaking of, dump VV for GH assuming your 3rd atma is RR. If it isn't, shame on you. People with empyrean club need to get used to the idea that they'll be getting the most damage over time from not using their new shiny unique WS, as sad as it sounds. It may still have some situational use... but honestly I think you'd have to look hard to find em. Hypothetically, if it restores MP based solely on Max MP %, wouldn't you want to carry as much MP gear as possible to maximize MP recovered? That may help it have more of an edge over Mystic Boon. It's likely best to recover more MP than it is to recover more HP, unless you're solo.

Question to whatever Mjollnir owners still read this: Do any of you notice a higher proc rate on the "Recovers MP" effect? It seems to proc more often now compared to the lvl 75 version. There isn't an overall cap increase on MP recovered as of the lvl 85 version.

[Ganukay]

Most of my testing was done with rdm sub. My nin sub is still gimp, only been using it to solo club trials. So the DA and TA was only on Gambanteinn, probably why I was getting better results with the ODD.

It does restore MP only based on percent of max MP and TP. From what I've seen, you don't need a full 200% TP to get it to the next tier either, a 150% will heal more than a 120% WS. I'm going to try and work out a formula for it.

Anyone have thoughts on the trial of magian clubs, specifically Naboot +2? Been trying to decide if I want OA2-4, double attack, or suck it up and get OAT.

[Logiks]

I've got the Naboot +2 OAT and it's a good mix of dmg/tp gain. For soloing with Dagan Spammage the 2-4 might be a good choice but damn its a lot of work.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I've got the Naboot +2 OAT and it's a good mix of dmg/tp gain. For soloing with Dagan Spammage the 2-4 might be a good choice but damn its a lot of work.

problem with 2-4 is that's a lot of swings without ODD, and since dagan is 0 damage I think it will hinder his damage output way too much.

If he can keep aftermath up with no problems without OA~
DA might be the better way to go, that being said if not OAT would probably the best middle ground.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Reading comprehension in this thread is atrocious.

Dagan is trash. Stop advising people to change their weapon combination based on maintaining aftermath.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Reading comprehension in this thread is atrocious.

Anyone have thoughts on the trial of magian clubs, specifically Naboot +2? Been trying to decide if I want OA2-4, double attack, or suck it up and get OAT.

He asked.

[Tsuko_Asura]

So you give him bad advice based on his misinformed question? No, you give him the right answer, which is to not use Dagan.

[jimbobsonofgod]

So you give him bad advice based on his misinformed question? No, you give him the right answer, which is to not use Dagan.

Well clearly you missed the part where he was using it and was asking advice on what off hand he should be using, not if should he use dagan in the first place.

[Ganukay]

Whether or not I'm using Dagan, I'd still like opinions on which Naboot +2 to go for, for pure damage, and the double attack one looks like a decent option. Though with OA2-4, I would be building TP faster, more hexa strike and/or dagan spam. I know you don't think Dagan is the optimal choice, and you're probably right, but I'm still going to test with it, see what uses it actually has.

[RyaWHM]

I still wish Dagan cured status ailments. Then it'd be really really really really kewl.

I thought/hoped that's what it did back when the video first came out!

Maybe the final version will do it ... or SE will revise it? (Kinda like Benediction changed five years ago!) -- for balance, it could even just be a single anytype, like that one DNC ability.

[byte]

I still wish Dagan cured status ailments. Then it'd be really really really really kewl.

I thought/hoped that's what it did back when the video first came out!

Maybe the final version will do it ... or SE will revise it? (Kinda like Benediction changed five years ago!) -- for balance, it could even just be a single anytype, like that one DNC ability.

I would really like to see this.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I would really like to see this.

My vote is to make it AOE instead.

[Veikuri]

Would it be worth it to leave my WHM at lv 88 or 96(currently 37) because I have Octave Club? I'm new to this 76+ crap. Just came back recently.

[Alkimi]

Not really, WHM melee is good for exp alliances and lowmanning/general messing around and it's certainly improved immeasurably by crit rate/damage atmas, to the point where if you have 70+ dmg main hand with a KC offhand it's one of the best non-empyrean DDs. However for fighting big NMs whm's lack of attack/accuracy becomes evident and I doubt you'd wanna be meleeing those sort of things with a kraken or octave club anyway.

[RyaWHM]

I dunno, it's always been pretty easy to get by (backline) with a slightly underleveled WHM for general healing, as long as you know what you're doing. Like a WHM75/SCH10 (or a WHM70/SCH35) could still do pretty well back in the day. Nowadays, other things would be more important, like having your sub in decent shape (RDM41, SCH40?), having good gear, good atmas ... if all else was in order, and you were 96 instead of 99, I can't imagine it being the end of the world.

But ... it might be hard to stay 96 in the age of mega-exp!

The other thing is ... the magian clubs might get up to KC power when they're 99, who knows! Then you wouldn't even have to worry about it (and I'd get to sell my KC for the going rate of 2.5 million)

[dannyl]

soooooo, whats everyone's current TP / WS gear these days? I'm starting to pick up my club trials and fear I'm below the curve as it relates to gear.

Thx