WHM Melee random crap

[Doofus]

I'm doing some math with someone in my LS now, and I can't cap fSTR. I'd need +48~ to cap fSTR. With merits it would be +40~. The weapon's damage is so high, that the fSTR cap is way the fuck up there.

Base STR is 59, merited it's 67 i think? I can currently get +36 or +39.

pretty sure you can only get 5attribute merits >.>

[isladar]

I'm sorry, but its as if you're all arguing the best way to shoot yourself in the face.

[Doofus]

I'm sorry, but its as if you're all arguing the best way to shoot yourself in the face.

WHM melee is like drg, 95% of them think they are good but actually suck(see: tping in hecatomb), while 5% of them are good, the bad give the good a bad name.

[Izzy]

I'm sorry, but its as if you're all arguing the best way to shoot yourself in the face.

Thanks for contributing to this thread! After I shoot myself in the foot, you can have the gun to shoot yourself in the face! This is actually really hard to figure out. EVERYONE knows what WAR should be wearing for optimal gear, there's 400 million WARs. Hell, I don't even have WAR passed 37 and I know what the best tp gear and ws gear is for like 8 different merit camps. How many people actually sit down and discuss meele gear for WHM, let alone a set of relic WS gear for WHM.

Amele: I was under the impression it was important to get fSTR as high as possible. Shouldn't I be putting 3 STR over 7 MND? The 3 STR would help fSTR and also give me an extra 1.2 in the modifying area of the calculation. The 7MND just gives me 2.1 mod and no fSTR.

[Rocl]

I'm sorry, but its as if you're all arguing the best way to shoot yourself in the face.

BRP Rule.

[isladar]

BRP Rule.

You're right, my bad. Just the idea makes my teeth itch after playing with one for so long.

Izzy, I think someone said earlier in the thread that while yeah, MND is an important secondary mod (like VIT for Steel Cyclone), if it comes down to just MND versus just STR, that STR is probably what's going to push you over the mob's whee you hit me line, where then MND will start doing stuff.

This post contains no maths.

[Amele]

Amele: I was under the impression it was important to get fSTR as high as possible. Shouldn't I be putting 3 STR over 7 MND? The 3 STR would help fSTR and also give me an extra 1.2 in the modifying area of the calculation. The 7MND just gives me 2.1 mod and no fSTR.

it's important to note that this is exclusively for weaponskill purposes, and presupposes that you have enough fstr already to put you in the region of the formula that we've found an approximation for. (generally, this is STR > ( mobVIT + 4 )

I'll put the relevant part of the formula here for reference:

damage = (D + FSTR() + WSC) * PDIF * fTP

now, FSTR can be both negative and positive, but is a 'mostly' linear function and when your str is high relative to the monster's vit, it can be approximated as (str - vit+4 / 4) -> for the purposes of determining what 'adding' stats (by adding gear) would do, the net effect is:

(str + x - vit+4 / 4) - (str - vit+4 / 4) = x / 4 = 25% x

where 'x' is the amount of strength you added.

so for the common range that most DD have fstr in, we can rewrite FSTR() to be .25 * str for the purposes of determining which additional gear will have the greatest net effect.

this gives us a 'net effect' for adding gear of: (.25 * str + .4 * str + .4 * mnd ) when we combine the fstr and wsc terms for randgrith.

this gives us the ratio I quoted above. (1.625 mnd <-> 1 str ) for this portion of the formula.

now, adding strength will also add to PDIF, which is a ratio versus mob defense. a level 82 mob with C rank defense (the most common defense) has a defense of 300 unbuffed. we'll assume that both dia II and an acid bolt were stuck - for a total defense down of 22.8% or 232 defense remaining. this means that every 1 str added will give a net change of +.002~ PDIF. (yeah. 2 thousandths of a point.) which is why I largely ignored it. it is useful to keep in mind when evaluating close pieces of gear, however.


in the specific example above (3 str vs 7 mind) this is a total net change of: 1.95 + .006~ PDIF, vs. 2.8.

assuming a PDIF of 1.0 (larger PDIF's weight increasing WD more) this gives an approximate net change of: +5.39 damage vs. +7.7 damage for randgrith (includes fTP at 100).

~~
FSTR is good to increase where possible full time, because it is applied to every hit (like, you'd never use mind gear in a slot for TP'ing)

but since FSTR and WSC apply in the same portion of the weaponskill damage formula, you should go for increasing whichever stat gives you the greatest combined net effect when looking at gear for weaponskills specifically.

the reason so many general melee ignore non-str stats is that, assuming they even have a non-str WSC mod, frequently those modifiers are too small relative to the strength terms to make it worth adding them, or there is an abundant amount of strength available in the slot.

for instance, if whm had access to a hecatomb cap, you'd need 18 mind on a head piece to make it worth wearing over the str cap. - This is magnified for ranged attacks where the FSTR2 calculation approximates more like ~50% str instead of 25%.

[Izzy]

Awesome! Thanks for all your help.

[Max™]

Hey, lay off the Melee whm's, I think its great watchin em strut around in Cureburgeons clonkin stuff with hammers!

Also: I'm sure the math there clarified it, but again, Str is always a factor when you hit a mob, Str mods just multiply the effect, Mnd only comes into play at one point in the calculation.

[Kriz]

Obviously Izzy, the only solution for you is to get Maat's cap

I must say I'm pleased with how well this discussion has been going, minus some haters. I feel that there is a good amount of ability a WHM has to offer for having fun while meleeing and not being absolutely worthless!

Here's hoping WotG has some new all jobs gear which can be repurposed for WHM melee

[Izzy]

haha if I had maats cap, this would be so much easier lol. I figure we're probley the only two people that are like, "OMG i hope they release WHM gear with LOTS OF STR!!!!"

[Amele]

I'd take +attack at this point honestly.

I mean, we've got our 3% haste legs, we've got our 2% haste shoes. most of the accessories these days are all jobs (rajas / snipers / brutal earring / suppa etc)

what we don't have is a 15 attack back piece. or a body with attack, or a pair of hands with +20 attack, etc.

[Izzy]

I'd take +attack at this point honestly.

I mean, we've got our 3% haste legs, we've got our 2% haste shoes. most of the accessories these days are all jobs (rajas / snipers / brutal earring / suppa etc)

what we don't have is a 15 attack back piece. or a body with attack, or a pair of hands with +20 attack, etc.

Yea, the Bellicose Mantle isn't really cutting it for me, but it's the best we've got ahha.

[Kriz]

Hah, I scan each item update looking for WHM melee gear

Not being a taru, and even before Mountain Gaiters silly +1STR was intro'ed, I used to look at the Windy conquest feet upgrade and be like, hmm, +7 attack! Awesome!

I even bought that level 30 shield that needs /BLM sub for a latent of +2STR (much before I knew too much about anything).

We got some newish +attack hand pieces. SE must have forgotten that nothing is gonna beat out even NQ AF with that STR...

It's not even that SE doesn't know that melee WHMs exist. I can excuse Blessed/AF being nice for melee as well as normal, but the Reverand Mail was a big nod (and, before that, the ohsocute Holy breastplate/shield).

Anyways, you know what you have to do. Level 15 other jobs to 66+ go!

[Bagel]

I'd take +attack at this point honestly.

I mean, we've got our 3% haste legs, we've got our 2% haste shoes. most of the accessories these days are all jobs (rajas / snipers / brutal earring / suppa etc)

what we don't have is a 15 attack back piece. or a body with attack, or a pair of hands with +20 attack, etc.

Could be worse, could be a PUP without Usukane.

[Amele]

I'd take +attack at this point honestly.

I mean, we've got our 3% haste legs, we've got our 2% haste shoes. most of the accessories these days are all jobs (rajas / snipers / brutal earring / suppa etc)

what we don't have is a 15 attack back piece. or a body with attack, or a pair of hands with +20 attack, etc.

Could be worse, could be a PUP without Usukane.

of course! SE implemented Pup so that people would let whitemages front-line like they always should? (or something)

[Izzy]

I'd take +attack at this point honestly.

I mean, we've got our 3% haste legs, we've got our 2% haste shoes. most of the accessories these days are all jobs (rajas / snipers / brutal earring / suppa etc)

what we don't have is a 15 attack back piece. or a body with attack, or a pair of hands with +20 attack, etc.

Could be worse, could be a PUP without Usukane.

of course! SE implemented Pup so that people would let whitemages front-line like they always should? (or something)

hahha god damn right! That was their plan all along.

[Izzy]

posted this in the dorp thread, but figured i'd show you guys too hahah.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5...8073846dc8.jpg

Hexa damage jumped from 1000~ on those demons in there to 1300-1500~. Not bad haha, HUGE base damage increase.

[Amele]

congrats! let us know how randgrith does in comparison to hexa too please

[Kriz]

Nice!

The fact that the best DMG you can get pre-relic is so far behind relic makes me hope that they keep releasing new weapons, maybe someday us normal people can come close to that awesomeness!

Looks good, ETA on when you can hope to see yourself in the relic thread?