Ranged delay calculation : Complete

[VZX]

If you don't want to see numbers, skip to the end of my post

Cross posted from my first post:

POST1
OK, I finally got some testing by myself
this is just from 2 shots. I got a longer video to analyze, but for now. I post the short one

Test setup:
My character doesn't have +rapid shot equip. I only have 1 rapid shot merit
Video is recorded by fraps with 1024x768 resolution with 30fps frame rate. Although the game is running at 23~25 fps
Weapons used :
- Obow + Holy bolt
- Sbow + Horn Arrow
- Hellfire + Iron bullet

init = 1 frame before my character moving (pulling out ranged attack)
shot = the frame when monster's name turn red (for 1st shot), or on the frame when the HP bar start depleting.
free = the frame where my character's tail start moving (means melee delay will be unpaused)

Obow + Holy:
32 - init 1
151 - shot 1
202 - free 1
274 - init 2
388 - shot 2

init -> shot (aim time): 3.8 ~ 4 second. I just assume 4 second. Probably the second one due to rapid shot
free->init (free time): 2.4 s
total time (init 1 to init 2) : 8.1s

Sbow + Horn:
19 - init 1
159 - shot 1
215 - free 1
266 - init 2
402 - shot 2
init -> shot (aim time): 4.5 ~ 4.6 second.
free -> init (free time): 1.7s
total time (init 1 to init 2) : 8.2s

Hellfire + Iron bullet:
28 - init 1
206 - shot 1
261 - free 1
319 - init 2
473 - shot 2
530 - free 2
588 - init 3
744 - shot 3
init -> shot (aim time): 5.1 ~ 5.9 second.
free -> init (free time): 1.9s
total time (init 1 to init 2) : 9.0s

aim time is probably the most accurate result I can get
the total time is probably the least accurate I can get, since I only spamming ranged attack macro.(Hence, the "you must wait longer to perform that action." message actually messed up the real calculation)

POST2
2 other longer video:
Obow + Holy bolt
28 - init 1
130 - shot 1
179 - free 1
220 - init 2
337 - shot 2
389 - free 2
431 - init 3
542 - shot 3
599 - free 3
673 - init 4
788 - shot 4
843 - free 4
890 - init 5

aim delay 1 : 3.4s
aim delay 2 : 3.9s
aim delay 3 : 3.7s
aim delay 4 : 3.8s

free delay 1 : 1.4s
free delay 2 : 1.4s
free delay 3 : 2.5s
free delay 4 : 1.6s

total delay:
shot 1->shot 2: 6.9s
shot 2->shot 3: 6.8s
shot 3->shot 4: 8.2s

SBow + Horn :
28 - init 1
173 - shot 1
225 - free 1
274 - init 2
418 - shot 2
472 - free 2
507 - init 3
646 - shot 3
704 - free 3
766 - init 4
867 - shot 4

aim delay 1 : 4.8s
aim delay 2 : 4.8s
aim delay 3 : 4.6s
aim delay 4 : 3.4s <- rapid shot definitely

free delay 1 : 1.6s
free delay 2 : 1.2s
free delay 3 : 2.1s

total delay:
shot 1->shot 2: 8.2s
shot 2->shot 3: 7.6s
shot 3->shot 4: 7.4s

I think free delay is somewhat constant along the weapon type (about 1.2~1.5s)

POST3
HF + iron bullet another try:
29 - init 1
129 - shot 1
??? - free 1 (I'm moving, so i don't know when)
230 - init 2
410 - shot 2
468 - free 2
501 - init 3
667 - shot 3
722 - free 3
772 - init 4


aim delay 1 : 3.3s
aim delay 2 : 6s
aim delay 3 : 5.5s

free delay 2: 1.1s
free delay 3: 1.6s

Repeating crossbow + holy bolt (delay: 144+192)
8 - init 1
55 - shot 1
101 - free 1
143 - init 2
181 - shot 2
235 - free 2
283 - init 3
308 - shot 3

Repeating crossbow + sleep bolt (delay: 144+ 288)
132 - init 1
168 - shot 1
221 - free 1
285 - init 2
324 - shot 2
375 - free 2
* i messed up pushing ranged attack macro*
454 - init 3
??? - rapid shot kicked in, didn't notice when the shot started
548 - free 3
593 - init 4
629 - shot 4
682 - free 4
730 - init 5
771 - shot 5

CONCLUSION:
- Ranged delay is not affected by ammo delay
- Weapon delay is THE only thing that affect your delay from pressing ranged attack until you shoot your ammo
- Ranged weapon delay per second is about twice as much as melee delay per second: 110 delay/second
- The delay from you shoot your ammo until you put back your ranged weapon completely is about 1.7s ~ 1.8s
- The minimum delay possible you can shoot after you entering free phase is 1.1s. This is the biggest problem that makes your shooting slow

- Current ranged delay calculation:
Delay = Ranged weapon delay(without ammo) / 110 + 1.7~1.8 + 1.1)
So for example :
Obow : 432/110 + 1.7~1.8 + 1.1 = 6.7~6.8 (matched quite well)
Obow : 540/110 + 1.7~1.8 + 1.1 = 7.7~7.8 (matched quite well)
Hellfire : 660/110 + 1.7~1.8 + 1.1 = 8.8~8.9s (matched quite well)
Repeating Crossbow : 144/110 + 1.7~1.8 + 1.1 = 4.1~4.2s (matched quite well)
Ebow(predicted) : 490/110 + 1.7 ~1.8 = 7.2 ~ 7.3s
- Rapid shot occurs almost all the time, but in different extent
- Conjuncture : Rapid shot can cut your delay to half of normal delay (although the test only showed it can cut hellfire delay from 6s to 3.3s [40% cut])

To wrap them up : Ranged attack divided to phases:

1. Pulling out -> aim -> shot : delay in second = ranged weapon delay/110
2. slight second after shot->putting ranged weapon back completely : 1.7~1.8s
3. 'free' phase : melee timer unpaused. The minimum delay of this 'free' phase is 1.1s

I'm open to correction if I'm wrong. If this is right, hopefully this will help the career RNG

[Carbon]

hi

[Xavier]

I'll take your word on it. Previously I was working under the assumption that ranged delay was simulating a d/c every attack.

[Naramaska]

I'll try taking some FRAPS with ebow tonight VZX if you're interested in analyzing them to see if they match up with your calculations. Just toss me a PM either here or on KI if so.

As-is, 7.2 seconds seems a bit on the long side for e-bow, even counting from init to free phase. It feels to me a bit more like 6-6.5 seconds. Again, i'll try to take some videos tonight and see what I can dig up.



Also, where does ammo delay factor in? We've always been assuming that ranged weapon delay only factored into the shot phase, while ammo was for the free phase. If this isn't the case, it definately throws a wrench into what we've been basing DoT arguments on.

[VZX]

as far as I noticed, ammo delay doesn't have any place on total delay calculation. I think I have 1.1s "free delay" for shooting hellfire and iron bullet (delay 240 ammo)
see for this lines from the numbers above:

468 - free 2
501 - init 3

you need to remember weapon delay/110 is the worst case possible you can have for ranged weapon. And as I said above, 70-80% of the time, rapid shot will just cut this delay by some random percentage.

[Naramaska]

And as I said above, 70-80% of the time, rapid shot will just cut this delay by some random percentage.

Seems to explain why nobody's ever really pegged the exact reduction on RS

[VZX]

So yeah.. I was thinking again:
If my conjuncture is true (rapid shot can cut the delay of aiming delay to half of it), is there really any point to dump merit on snap shot? (other than "no more places to dump merit points")

edit: oh and about the video Nara, I haven't tried to view my smaller resolution version. I did the analysis by just eye-balling the frame where animation look choppy, so resolution and image quality is kinda important too besides frame rate itself (for introducing the least error possible)

[Raizins]

Interesting info. Thanks for the test.

[Toralyn]

I thought it was common knowledge that ammo delay didn't affect how long it takes to shoot, it affects time allowed between shots.

But yeah, 7.2s seems a bit high for E.bow...

[VZX]

Ammo delay, in my conclusion, doesn't affect anything other than the TP gain/shot

and 7.2~7.3s for ebow is the lower bound delay per shot, consindering no rapid shot interference. With just 1 rapid shot merit, I got many interference actually. (the delay is lower than what it should be).

A better way to test is to use a non-RNG job or /RNG

[Bakthi]

Don't use COR either, since they got Rapid Shot in the last big version update. Not like I ever notice it activate...then again, I don't shoot for TP on COR unless it's a kited mob or Salvage.

[VZX]

So is there anyone testing my result again?

I'd like to change the total delay of put down delay + free delay to 3.0s. It seems work better with Kaman+1, since I got a /wait 6 interrupted ("you must wait longer to perform that action" message) a few times.