FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Seha]

Doesn't make sense considering what Sajj'ka tells about their raid into Ra'Kaznar.

[Priran]

Or that the Naakuals were already in Ulbuka and they serve August because he beat them in combat.

[Ophannus]

Pfff it's an RPG, the game lies to us all the time even in cutscenes i.e Zilart Brothers wrecking us after the Shadowlord fight was retoconned, this realm being the false recreated dimension where the races of altana win the crystal war, etc. Not saying that's what happening this time, it was mere conjecture for fun, but don't be so quick to throw it out. We as the player have been trolled by mission NPCs before and told flat out lies and misdirected into believing a false history of vana'diel multiple times.

[Priran]

Pfff it's an RPG, the game lies to us all the time even in cutscenes i.e Zilart Brothers wrecking us after the Shadowlord fight was retoconned, this realm being the false recreated dimension where the races of altana win the crystal war, etc. Not saying that's what happening this time, it was mere conjecture for fun, but don't be so quick to throw it out. We as the player have been trolled by mission NPCs before and told flat out lies and misdirected into believing a false history of vana'diel multiple times.

Those are retcons, NPCs are generally written to be either honest and accurate or obviously misinformed. The current history we have is:

Naakuals, Sajj'aka, and Hades escape their dimension to Ulbuka -> Ulbukan wilderness becomes hostile and uninhabitable -> August transplants Yggdrasil to Ulbukan wilderness, weakening Hades -> August recruits Sajj'aka and the Naakuals against Hades -> August, Sajj'aka, and the 12 companions enter Ra'kaznar to fight Hades and lose, but severely weaken him, and August's soul is bound in Ra'kaznar -> Hades spends the rest of the time until the present weakening Yggdrasil, the Naakuals protect Ra'kaznar from intrusion by pioneers, Morimar is escapes and is immortal because wizards, and Sajj'aka is stuck wounded on Mt. Kamihr.

The parts of that which make sense to have lied about would be where Hades/Naakuals/Sajj'aka originally came from, what happened to August, what happened to Morimar, and why Sajj'aka and the Naakuals sided with August. Ambiguity which could have a surprising reveal would be why Hades does what he does, what exactly they all are, why Yggdrasil exists in this world to oppose something not from this world, and who Teodor is.

What makes no sense to have lied about is when the Naakuals came to be, since that would require having lied about a whole bunch of stuff there is no reason to have lied about except to have lied about it (like that the 7th Naakual was on the Xol Triumvirate, served Hades, and defected; if he was a companion and turned into a Naakual he could not have a history of working with Hades as a Naakual).

[Damane]

Those are retcons, NPCs are generally written to be either honest and accurate or obviously misinformed. The current history we have is:

Naakuals, Sajj'aka, and Hades escape their dimension to Ulbuka -> Ulbukan wilderness becomes hostile and uninhabitable -> August transplants Yggdrasil to Ulbukan wilderness, weakening Hades -> August recruits Sajj'aka and the Naakuals against Hades -> August, Sajj'aka, and the 12 companions enter Ra'kaznar to fight Hades and lose, but severely weaken him, and August's soul is bound in Ra'kaznar -> Hades spends the rest of the time until the present weakening Yggdrasil, the Naakuals protect Ra'kaznar from intrusion by pioneers, Morimar is escapes and is immortal because wizards, and Sajj'aka is stuck wounded on Mt. Kamihr.

The parts of that which make sense to have lied about would be where Hades/Naakuals/Sajj'aka originally came from, what happened to August, what happened to Morimar, and why Sajj'aka and the Naakuals sided with August. Ambiguity which could have a surprising reveal would be why Hades does what he does, what exactly they all are, why Yggdrasil exists in this world to oppose something not from this world, and who Teodor is.

What makes no sense to have lied about is when the Naakuals came to be, since that would require having lied about a whole bunch of stuff there is no reason to have lied about except to have lied about it (like that the 7th Naakual was on the Xol Triumvirate, served Hades, and defected; if he was a companion and turned into a Naakual he could not have a history of working with Hades as a Naakual).

correct me if I am wrong but August freed the naakuals and Sajj'aka from their prison in the Serpent Labyrinth (rakaznar). Naakuals became loyal "friends" to august and are garding the entrances to the serpent labyrinth so noone would step in by mistake into the labyrinths.

[Priran]

correct me if I am wrong but August freed the naakuals and Sajj'aka from their prison in the Serpent Labyrinth (rakaznar). Naakuals became loyal "friends" to august and are garding the entrances to the serpent labyrinth so noone would step in by mistake into the labyrinths.

I'm pretty sure the Naakuals were prowling the jungle as leaders of their respective families before August began colonization, and he recruited them by beating them in a fight. In any case, August only went into Ra'kaznar once and the Naakuals did not go with him (he made Morimar and Sajj'aka leave without him and deliver the order to guard the entrances to the Naakuals), so he couldn't have met them there. Xol is mentioned by Sajj'aka to have had many battles with August before he defected. Sajj'aka might have been freed during August's fight in Ra'kaznar, he was definitely enslaved by Hades somehow until August intervened.

[Damane]

I'm pretty sure the Naakuals were prowling the jungle as leaders of their respective families before August began colonization, and he recruited them by beating them in a fight. In any case, August only went into Ra'kaznar once and the Naakuals did not go with him (he made Morimar and Sajj'aka leave without him and deliver the order to guard the entrances to the Naakuals), so he couldn't have met them there. Xol is mentioned by Sajj'aka to have had many battles with August before he defected. Sajj'aka might have been freed during August's fight in Ra'kaznar, he was definitely enslaved by Hades somehow until August intervened.

I am pretty sure that sajjaka mentioned the naakuals being freed too from august and that their origin is from another dimension/world like sajjaka.

[Priran]

I am pretty sure that sajjaka mentioned the naakuals being freed too from august and that their origin is from another dimension/world like sajjaka.

"We are quite alike, the Naakuals and I. We are all residents of a land we cannot call our own, rescued from fate by the one you call the founder king."
"Never again will I return there. Nor will they...
>But isn't it your homeland?
'Homeland.' Quite the pretty phrase, washing away reality with a thin veneer of nostalgia. No, my “homeland” is not a place to which I desire to return.
>Who are 'they'?
You mentioned earlier the beings you know as the 'Naakuals.'"

How it sounds is that Sajj'aka and the Naakuals came from the same place. Hades may or may not have, but he's also from somewhere else. Sajj'aka was imprisoned in Ra'kaznar, but the Naakuals were more like servants (Xol being particularly highly ranked). Sajj'aka could mean his homeland was terrible, but to me it sounds like he's just accepted that however he got here was a one-way trip.

[Spira]

its pretty clear that it means that the Naakuals and Sajjaka arent from Ulbuka's wilderness but somewhere else. It is heavily implied that this somewhere else is another dimension, probably within Ra'Kaznar, where the Cimmerian Adherants come from.

that given, it would seem that August subjugated the Naakuals when they invaded Ulbuka in the first place, because it appears as tho he subjugated them befpre he ventured into RaKaznar

[Priran]

I don't think their homeland is Ra'kaznar itself (since he mentions it so often but sticks to ambiguous terms like "my homeland" when talking about where he's from) but they probably came to Ulbuka in it, like it was built in their homeland as some kind of interdimensional transporter. Maybe Hades rounded them up and took them there to conquer Vana'diel? The fact that Hades is shaping up to (sigh) have something to do with Odin (the Inner Ra'ka preview shows that the bat-winged monsters from the art are indeed gargouilles) means Hades was originally someone else, got angry, and sought power to do something. My best guess at this point would be that Hades is another Vanadiel's King of the Zilart.

[Damane]

I don't think their homeland is Ra'kaznar itself (since he mentions it so often but sticks to ambiguous terms like "my homeland" when talking about where he's from) but they probably came to Ulbuka in it, like it was built in their homeland as some kind of interdimensional transporter. Maybe Hades rounded them up and took them there to conquer Vana'diel? The fact that Hades is shaping up to (sigh) have something to do with Odin (the Inner Ra'ka preview shows that the bat-winged monsters from the art are indeed gargouilles) means Hades was originally someone else, got angry, and sought power to do something. My best guess at this point would be that Hades is another Vanadiel's King of the Zilart.

so basicly an alternate dimension ala WotG 2.0, but in this case instead of failing the battle against the shadowlord back then, the zilarts failed to protect their homeland thousands of years ago? I doubt so, i think hades is a god that was chained during some form of battle into rakaznar. everyone thought promathia was evil, but he was not, i believe hades is the counterbalance to altana. he might be an entity that entered vanadiel when the zilart tried to open the gates to paradise (but in reality opened the gates to hell)

[Priran]

I was thinking more that they were successful and Al'taieu did not get transferred. Abyssea establishes that all parallel Vana'diels need to die to bring about Paradise, and maybe Yggdrasil impedes that (or is what allows multiple Vana'diels to exist).

I think it's interesting that of all the beasts Hades brought with him to Ulbuka, the only one he imprisoned and went out of his way to cripple was a holy dragon. We don't know who the red-and-black jester thing is yet, but it looks like a caturae (and fits in their theme of a royalty, if not their theme of chess) and Ra'kaznar has Ironclads, so maybe Promathia is involved somehow.

[Damane]

I was thinking more that they were successful and Al'taieu did not get transferred. Abyssea establishes that all parallel Vana'diels need to die to bring about Paradise, and maybe Yggdrasil impedes that (or is what allows multiple Vana'diels to exist).

I think it's interesting that of all the beasts Hades brought with him to Ulbuka, the only one he imprisoned and went out of his way to cripple was a holy dragon. We don't know who the red-and-black jester thing is yet, but it looks like a caturae (and fits in their theme of a royalty, if not their theme of chess) and Ra'kaznar has Ironclads, so maybe Promathia is involved somehow.

i am confused how do caturae and ironclads link to promathia?

[Kyte]

They are unworldly monsters that appeared when we failed to protect the planet from Promathia's awakening. That said, the connection, as with everything in the Abyssea and Voidwatch storylines, is pretty vague.

[Priran]

i am confused how do caturae and ironclads link to promathia?

Caturae and Ironclads (and clionids and limules and murex and amoebans but those haven't appeared in Adoulin) are ostensibly creations of Promathia, since in Abyssea they crawl out of fissures in the ground after he transforms into Shinryu and begin killing everyone (plus Caturae control access to the Abyssean Empyreal Paradox)

[Ophannus]

I wonder how the World Tree fits into this? I thought Vana'diel exists due to Altana and the avatars not some tree...meh retcons...

[Damane]

their appearence in aby doesnt link them to promathia. we have no idea what kind of effects the rising of altaieu had on rakaznar and adoulin, all we know from a census is that catures came out of nowhere and that their origin is unkown and not from this world.

[Malithar]

all we know from a census is that catures came out of nowhere and that their origin is unkown and not from this world.

And that they look remarkably similar to the Xol/jester thing, and the presumed concept art of Hades. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say they're connected, and in a way, it'd make sense. In Abyssea, Promathia (Shinryu) rose to power, beat Hades after he rose to power, then took control of the Caturea, willing them to do his bidding, IE seal the entrance to him. The links spoken of regarding Ironclads are just that they're from another dimension, and here they pop up in an area with Lair Reives that are "dimensional anchors" and such.

No proof of any of it, but I don't think it's much of a stretch at all to make the connections.

[Priran]

However ambiguous Ironclads might be, Caturae guard Provenance so there's really no way they're anything but direct divine creations.

[Anoat]

So...was there ever anything explicitly stated that Ovjang and Mnjeng are "special", or truly alive,...or is Nashmeira really a schizo who talks to others and herself through puppets?