Pre-Edit I was typing this while doing Dynamis, so obviously there have been posts already. I understand your argumentative stance on the subject, I'm just trying to shine light on the community.
:ashira: Poor grammar on my part, after re-reading my statement, I can understand why you would think I thought Shadow had Refresh. Here is a rephrase:Originally Posted by Elipse
This is very similar to the Ares Cuirass unless you ONLY want Ares for Refresh like you only want A.Body for refresh.
Now, the Ares would really only appeal to PLDs for Refresh, and on a smaller scale for DRKs.
But LS's don't just only camp E.body. They do camp A.body, whether it's epeen or not. They camp N.head, they camp just to fight and make sure other LSs don't get gear (lol at that but I'm serious).
The point is, SE answered the question "Make King Abjs obtainable another way." They did so by adding Behemoth/King Behemoth, Adamantoise/Aspidochelone, and Fafnir/Nidhogg drops all into Einherjar. Clearly there was a problem if the community had been complaining about it for years. It's not the implementation of Einherjar, it's the community (again). Apparently the community only wanted more E.bodies (because the question wasn't 'we want more Ridills and Defending Rings', it was 'we want a new way to obtain abjurations.')
So right now, I don't know what the people of FFXI want now. First they want new way to obtain King Abjs, now they just want E. bodies?
And I was replying to those thoughts. You were trying to explain that they won't get gear because more people will be there. Very faulty logic as I made clear examples as to why it was. You're making subtle hints at "Salvage is the best event in the game because ----" You say it can take as little as 6 solid players that show up to every run, and also that there is a reward for everyone (true) whom can attain it quickly. More further down. (I forgot to finish this part when I posted, but I continued further down I think.. I kinda forgot what I was going to say. Like I said I was doing Dynamis at the same time, lol).What I wrote before from the individual perspective isn't my thoughts, its what I "think" is the thoughts of the people who say "fuck einherjar its not worth it.". I was trying to explain to this group of people why anyone whos not uber insane relic'd and hardcore 10 hours a day playing, would think this event has a weak reward/effort ratio.
I was bringing up group examples where it takes group effort to achieve minimal gain (the only benefit was that it could go by faster). I go to Limbus every week with the thought "I'll get nearly 0 rewards". The coins are as much of a reward as Ampoules. AF+1 items are easy to come by, but nearly all but 1 or 2 pieces in each set are actually worth upgrading, which is much like the abjs that drop in the early tiers.They would think, I have 3 hours to play tonight, I can go to salvage and get a serious shot at something or go to Einherjar for nearly 0 rewards. If you want to pull in the limbus example you'd have to keep in mind that 26 people can pull in 1 omega a run. So basically 4 omegas a month. If you compare it without any AF+1 items or coins limbus is a better value in terms of time.
Salvage is so lol it's ridiculous. Ask ANYONE about their most desired piece and how many times they've tried to get it or how many times it took to get it. It's so absurdly broken. The community complains more about Salvage drops than anything.
Because Odin offers 100% drops (2-4 abjs, 3 supposedly 100%, plus an Odin exclusive item) it makes it much more appealing to complete (not to mention so much information has been brought forth on how to defeat Odin, even the clue "Pay homage to Odin" from SE has been proven [unlike some Clues....*cough*].)
Salvage is way too frustrating for me, and I'm not the only one that feels that way. Einherjar takes that pain away by decimating helpless mobs and dethroning bosses from their Chambers.
Define value? Time? Money? Rewards? All of the above? I'm thinking of more than just the hardcore. Shit the rest of the community either does Campaign, Besieged, Assaults, Salvage, or has a Dynamis/Sky LS. Campaign can be done whenever the person feels. Besieged is only voluntary, so you don't need to set aside times to be there. Assaults can be done very quickly and done once a day in 10-30mins with a small group of people. Salvage, as you and I have been over, can be done with a small group as well, but it needs it's own time scheduling. Dynamis and Sky are in it's own categories.Yes yes, you can do both. Doesn't mean everyone will see value in doing that. If you have nothing else to do with your time, like me.. then einherjar is great... not because its great but because you really have nothing else to do. So just think of more than the hardcore and think of the rest of the community.
So why WOULDN'T the rest of the community fit in Einherjar for an event? The "hardcore" community has enough events already to deal with to fit Einherjar in (Our LS barely leaks in any free-time except on Saturday. From Prime-Time to almost 11est we are full of events). There's a lot of information already about EVERY tier where you can get a very good understanding on what to do for every situation for your LS to achieve victory and gain access to Odin.