Question Discussion

[Spekkio]

The event was pitched as 'casual', hence why i was kinda suggesting that SE could allow some options to get the items outta the event itself, much like limbus/kings/sky. Just have items drop that desyth, raw random drops within the event, trade in unwanted armor for material/s, or have a system where you can work towards getting the items via somekind of crude point system.

Its nothing really revolutionary, every other events been doing it for ages.

i had 2 ideas myself for reducing the cost of the ingot requirement.
1.) Create a beastman equip drop "Soulflayer Anathema" with a lousy drop rate. think like a lamian kaman but from even more mean and nasty mobs. desynth as follows NQ/HQ1, 1x darksteel ingot, HQ2/HQ3, 1x imperial wootz ingot. with the combination of the lousy drop rate and the limited chance that the desynth not only doesn't break but pulls an HQ2/3, the market won't get flooded, but it will ease the strain and bring the price of ingots down to a more managable level.

2.) Reduce the number of items required to upgrade a salvage piece from 12 to 4. this will have only a minimal impact on the cheaper pieces such as feet, etc. marid hides are common as dirt and 35 feet are rare, making salvage upgrades an insignificant factor for the sales rate on that material and most others are pretty much in the same boat. meanwhile, this will reduce demand for ingots with players wanting only a fraction of the ingots they needed before which depresses the cost of ore/ingots to a more sane realm while at the same time decreasing the cost per body to the player by a significant sum.

[Gergall]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

[Veli]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

[Gergall]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

I'll take one last stab at this. If everyone traded all of their gil to NPCs and there was very little gil left, item prices would drop (deflation) because nobody could afford to pay the high prices.

On the other hand if everyone traded all of their ITEMS to NPCs and there were very few items left in the game, but plenty of gil, prices would rise (inflation) as the remaining items would be very rare.

The balance of the economy is based on the amount of gil versus the amount of items. Trading gil to an NPC and trading items to an NPC have opposite effects.

[Veli]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

I'll take one last stab at this. If everyone traded all of their gil to NPCs and there was very little gil left, item prices would drop (deflation) because nobody could afford to pay the high prices.

On the other hand if everyone traded all of their ITEMS to NPCs and there were very few items left in the game, but plenty of gil, prices would rise (inflation) as the remaining items would be very rare.

The balance of the economy is based on the amount of gil versus the amount of items. Trading gil to an NPC and trading items to an NPC have opposite effects.

Yea you're right...
If player A has 1m
player b has behemoth hide
Player A buys B hide from player B
Player A blows up hide
Player B still has 1m so no gil has left...I understand now..

[Fornax]

Although the community enjoys the thought of new weapons and armors some of us the thought of adding to existing sets such as AF to AF+1 and Relic to Relic+1. Would it be possible to see more of this? I think it would be a better way of improve our characters without making existing sets of armor useless since we would need those pieces to upgrade them anyway. Sets that come to mind would be AF+2 Relic+2 Homam+1 Nashira+1 Assualt Gear+1 aswell as many more. Although for some sets I do see this being a little gamebreaking.

This is an excellent question, and I'd like to add a few thoughts.

While the increase in quality from AF to AF+1 was generally substantial, the same cannot be said about the step from Relic to Relic +1. A few already powerful pieces like the Duelist's Chapeau were improved tremendously, but many equally powerful and desirable pieces like the Sorcerer's Petasos received only a homeopathic dose of improvement, and some obsolete pieces like the Sorcerer's Sabots were not improved enough to be serious alternative to other, more easily obtained pieces like Rostrum Pumps or Yigit Crackows.

There seems to be no consistent philosophy to these upgrades here. Too many of them give just one more DEF and a little more HP or MP, and do not justify the amount of time needed to farm them from CoP Dynamis area and the price of giving up the ability to turn in a relic set, or are outclassed by other gear.

For Relic +2 sets, I'd like to see substantial improvements across the board that would justify investing a lot of time into getting the +1 pieces, and then even more time into the +2 upgrade. Substantial improvement means an improvement to the primary stat that makes people use the piece- more fast cast for the Duelist's Tabard +2, more Elemental Skill (and maybe a little INT) for the Sorcerer's Petasos +2, a little more Haste for the Koga Tekko+2, etc.

And while we're at it, please add storage options for all the +1 and +2 sets, and reduce the gil required to take deflation into account.

[Bakthi]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

I'll take one last stab at this. If everyone traded all of their gil to NPCs and there was very little gil left, item prices would drop (deflation) because nobody could afford to pay the high prices.

On the other hand if everyone traded all of their ITEMS to NPCs and there were very few items left in the game, but plenty of gil, prices would rise (inflation) as the remaining items would be very rare.

The balance of the economy is based on the amount of gil versus the amount of items. Trading gil to an NPC and trading items to an NPC have opposite effects.

Your last stab missed

Maybe I can manage.

Player A has 1m gil.
Player B has a WTFBBQ Ingot.
Player A buys the ingot from Player B. Now Player A has the ingot, and Player B has 1m gil.
Player A trades the ingot to an NPC. Player B still has 1m gil.

No gil has left the economy; it is still in the hands of Player B. Thus, deflation is not aided. PC-to-PC transactions never result in gil leaving or entering the economy. This can only happen when a PC interacts with an NPC. By the time Player A interacts with an NPC, they are not doing so using gil.

[Tarage]

[quote=ronin sparthos]

Your talking about banning RMT like they arent level 1 who dont give a fuck? That does not solve the problem plaguing many servers. This is the same situation like when RMT were owning Sahagin for months, raking in free-money and worrying little about player or SE resistance.

2 khroma ore in that time isvery rare and is unlikely to happen to the 'casual' players that do salvage often, hell even the hardcore people wouldnt mine long before caving in and buying some ores.

Point is, some more places to mine the shit without being cockblocked by RMT or even something within salvage that works towards the 12 ingots would be favorable. Kings do it, Sky does it as well - it'd be nice to see Salvage continue that pattern.

If you HONESTLY think asking the dev team in a casual interview if they will stop those mean old RMTs from mining your ore and have them actually do anything, you are crazy. Again, it's a pointless question because we all know SE is 'working on the problem'. Please, if you want to ask more pointless Sage Sundi-esque questions, do it on your own time. The rest of us would like to know about important things. You know, things that affect more than just a handfull of whiners.

Angry arent we? What are these questions that are so burning you to ask the dev team? Kings? lol. Last i heard the dev team can shut any question down they damn well please. I think its more your making money with khroma so you dont want to see your money source affected, how very thoughtful of the entire situation other than yourself. Ironic your accusing me of bitching when obviously your crying that they might nerf your money source or you bought 12 ingots already and feel if they change it you'll be shafted.

Stop making it seem like the questions have 'ranks' or 'tiers' because last i checked the greatest questions about kings with flowcharts and colorful diagrams can get just as shut down as a question about ebon panels or AV. Its an open forum, stop trying to cockblock peoples questions because they dont suit what you want. [/quote:1p4qm3qm]

Okay, I find your acuzations halarious. You think I'm somehow magically monopilizing the ore, and I'm afraid a random BG interview question is going to bring down my entire way of making gil? Hell, why don't you just call me a gilseller and get it over with.

You should bloody check FFXIAH and do a search on Tarage of Caitsith. You won't find a single damn ore, ingot, or anything of the like.

You have not a god damned clue, you are just spouting random giberish that comes into your head. How bloody pathetic you are. But do continue, this has become incredibly amusing. What other cabal will you connect me to?

[ronin sparthos]

[quote=Bakthi]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

I'll take one last stab at this. If everyone traded all of their gil to NPCs and there was very little gil left, item prices would drop (deflation) because nobody could afford to pay the high prices.

On the other hand if everyone traded all of their ITEMS to NPCs and there were very few items left in the game, but plenty of gil, prices would rise (inflation) as the remaining items would be very rare.

The balance of the economy is based on the amount of gil versus the amount of items. Trading gil to an NPC and trading items to an NPC have opposite effects.

Your last stab missed

Maybe I can manage.

Player A has 1m gil.
Player B has a WTFBBQ Ingot.
Player A buys the ingot from Player B. Now Player A has the ingot, and Player B has 1m gil.
Player A trades the ingot to an NPC. Player B still has 1m gil.

No gil has left the economy; it is still in the hands of Player B. Thus, deflation is not aided. PC-to-PC transactions never result in gil leaving or entering the economy. This can only happen when a PC interacts with an NPC. By the time Player A interacts with an NPC, they are not doing so using gil.[/quote:10iqlphc]

Your quite right about that, no money leaves the economy and all that happens is that the money is dispersed among the masses who you buy ore or ingots from.

There seems to be no consistent philosophy to these upgrades here. Too many of them give just one more DEF and a little more HP or MP, and do not justify the amount of time needed to farm them from CoP Dynamis area and the price of giving up the ability to turn in a relic set, or are outclassed by other gear.

That should be a question, im quite curious how they create stats for new items that are eventuallly put into the game. Sometimes its a hit, other times its a complete miss in terms of gear like relic and armor sets.

"How exactly does the SE dev team come up with the stats for new items and what exactly is considered?"

Stuff.

Lets just call it a draw shall we?
Stop derailing the thread with your banter.

[arus2001]

[quote=Bakthi]

You should NOT have to NPC 12M each set.. That's a lot of gil going out the game at a time like this it's no good.

Sorry to nitpick but "gil going out of the game" happens when you give gil to an NPC (30k to Sagheera, 1M to an hourglass gobbie). Giving an NPC 12 ingots doesn't remove gil from the game.

Salvage body pieces removes some valuable items from the game, which causes inflation on the smaller remaining supply of that item...which is exactly what we're experiencing - inflated prices for the small supply of Imp Wootz Ingots. The gil used to buy those items at the AH hasn't disappeared; someone else has it.

You can take o ignots make some level 74 rings and some guy buys them and can later on sell them.. You can buy a 12 o ignots and trade it to a NPC to receive a salvage head piece.. If that's not money leaving the game I don't know what it is. You got it all backwards...

I'll take one last stab at this. If everyone traded all of their gil to NPCs and there was very little gil left, item prices would drop (deflation) because nobody could afford to pay the high prices.

On the other hand if everyone traded all of their ITEMS to NPCs and there were very few items left in the game, but plenty of gil, prices would rise (inflation) as the remaining items would be very rare.

The balance of the economy is based on the amount of gil versus the amount of items. Trading gil to an NPC and trading items to an NPC have opposite effects.

Your last stab missed

Maybe I can manage.

Player A has 1m gil.
Player B has a WTFBBQ Ingot.
Player A buys the ingot from Player B. Now Player A has the ingot, and Player B has 1m gil.
Player A trades the ingot to an NPC. Player B still has 1m gil.

No gil has left the economy; it is still in the hands of Player B. Thus, deflation is not aided. PC-to-PC transactions never result in gil leaving or entering the economy. This can only happen when a PC interacts with an NPC. By the time Player A interacts with an NPC, they are not doing so using gil.[/quote:3mduowor]

AH fees still exist, and they're doubly so if the person lists in Whitegate.

[ronin sparthos]

AH fees are a trivial loss on someone thats selling ingots, since they are almost ensured to get the money back when the ingots sell.

They are pretty high turnover items across the servers.

[Gergall]

Question 1
Is there any planned adjustments to the Hills are Alive KSBC? The difficulty of acquiring the adamantoise egg is much more difficult than acquiring the two other pieces required for Black Belt.

This fight can be beaten with well-timed skillchains and magic bursts. This fight requires excellent teamwork and is definitely challenging, but Black Belt is worth it. Use the forum search feature to get more info about how to beat this fight...and I'm not talking about a manaburn.

[arus2001]

AH fees are a trivial loss on someone thats selling ingots, since they are almost ensured to get the money back when the ingots sell.

They are pretty high turnover items across the servers.

Money's still lost. Forget what something 800k would cost in fees, but I imagine anywhere from 20-50k. As a high turnover item, that does add up quickly. Possibly a Dynamis every day or two. And in the case of ingots, there's the actual money lost by the initial posting of the ores. So the number's probably closer to 40-100k per ingot unless you wind up doing the hard way and avoid the AH entirely for ingot production.

[Tarage]

Stuff.

Lets just call it a draw shall we?
Stop derailing the thread with your banter.

Excuse me? derailing a thread with... content? God forbid I use this thread for what it was supposed to be used for. You know, discussion and debate of posible questions.

Face it skippy, you called my rational into question, so I'm gonna give it right back at you. The question is pointless, serves a small minority, and isn't the type of thing that SE will even bat an eye at. Prove me wrong.

[Eldelphia]

Making the synth materials drop occasionally from Salvage mobs or even just limit it to occasionally dropping from the NMs within Salvage wouldn't kill anybody. I'm not talking about the frequency of coins in Limbus.

I don't think Salvage is truly a 'casual' event. I agree it takes far less players which is great but it takes a lot from those players and it takes commitment to withstand the crappy drop rates on some items.

You can do Salvage once a week and get some drops. However the length of time it takes to train a group, get three parts to drop is considerable if this is all you do. It is not effective. You need to do 2-3 runs a week at least to make it worth it. Which means you need to do assault daily.

None of the individual steps to get involved in Salvage (doing Black Coffin, doing Assault) are difficult however they take time. Add in the time it takes to get the drops and then the time it takes someone to raise 8 million worth of ingots - it's not a casual commitment.

I don't think it should be, I think that Salvage gear is fantastic and the system is more accessible. However some small shells who have reached endgame (like mine) do not have instant access to millions of gil. Individuals can and do raise their own over time but I don't think it would hurt at all to make the occasional ingot or ore drop from the event itself.

Not everyone is in an HNMLS, not everyone has Kings gear, not everyone is a 100 smith. But they can still be good players in a 6-10 group who can do Salvage. Upgrade drops would make a lot of sense within the event itself, as long as they didn't drop like rain.

[Phryn]

Question 1

What are the reasons behind SE introducing the Octave Club as the drop from the Lord of Onzozo as opposed to a rare/ex version of the Kraken Club? All of the other drops that were heavily camped by RMT such as O-kote and Fuma Kyahan were just changed to rare/ex and their non-rare/ex versions added to BCNM drop lists. The Kraken Club has been added to the BCNM60 Up In Arms, but has a very small chance of dropping. Dual wielding these weapons is a futile effort, so myself and other players don't understand the purpose behind the Octave Club only working at two levels.

What do you mean by "Dual wielding these weapons is a futile effort"? There can be no doubt that they would be dual wielded if the Octave worked like Kraken.

With the 8 hit/round cap you actually suffer in damage because you have the added delay of dual wield. People had discussed it and calculated it a bunch when the Octave first came out.

[Bakthi]

AH fees still exist, and they're doubly so if the person lists in Whitegate.

And AH fees are a PC interacting with an NPC (Auction Counter). Just because the NPC looks like a miniblind most of the time and is mediating between two PCs doesn't mean it's not there. The ones in Norg, Nashmau, and the Tavnazian Safehold are even bipedal.

It is true that most Khroma is sold on the AH, and thus the gil in AH fees is removed from the system, but this is hardly an issue unique to Khroma Ore. I guess Khroma, as a relatively high-priced and very fast selling item, probably contributes more in AH fees than many other items, but well...there are so many other items.

Is there any planned adjustments to the Hills are Alive KSBC? The difficulty of acquiring the adamantoise egg is much more difficult than acquiring the two other pieces required for Black Belt.

My personal experience has been that this is way easier than the other two. Not sure what's going wrong for you. The only bad part about Hills are Alive is the drops.

[arus2001]

AH fees still exist, and they're doubly so if the person lists in Whitegate.

And AH fees are a PC interacting with an NPC (Auction Counter). Just because the NPC looks like a miniblind most of the time and is mediating between two PCs doesn't mean it's not there. The ones in Norg, Nashmau, and the Tavnazian Safehold are even bipedal.

It is true that most Khroma is sold on the AH, and thus the gil in AH fees is removed from the system, but this is hardly an issue unique to Khroma Ore. I guess Khroma, as a relatively high-priced and very fast selling item, probably contributes more in AH fees than many other items, but well...there are so many other items.

That's the point. The price of Khroma is seriously disproportionate to the majority of other basic items in the economy. The closest thing I can readily think of would be Behemoth Hides, but not only do you have a stab at those from Byakko or BCs outside of the HNM counterparts, but you don't need 12 leathers to make a pair of Dusk Gloves, for example.

I feel like I'm reminded of Diablo II where the value of items was based on how many Stones of Jordan you could trade for them. Nobody was really interested in anything else as a currency because they were the easiest to peddle. Gold was worthless, and in comparison to gil against most of you daily needs and basic farmings, the economy's at a similar state. Thankfully we'll never get to such an extreme BECAUSE of the AH, but it's a catch 22 in that deflation will continue while demand really hasn't subsided.

Honestly, I'd be curious to see a chart listing how much fresh gil enters the economy daily, broken down into NPCing, BC/NM, and quest/mission rewards. I do feel there's still a pretty big gaping void between the two, but it's not so prevalent because a lot of old-timers have had what they needed since inflation in many cases.

[Tomiko]

Someone else also posted the odin body abj which is similar to ares yet markedly cheaper. 8m gil in this economy is a lot and it's not like you're being handed the 35 drop.

Cursed Breastplate (Phantasmal Abj) - Prices based on Fairy's Economy
2 x Orichalcum Sheet - 280k if you buy Ingots and have them synthed.
2 x Cerberus Leather - 4m, assuming you can actually catch the rare time one is put on the AH. Can also do Ashu Talif BCs and hope you get a drop.
2 x Dark Adaman Sheet - ~84k each if you have ingot then sheet made
1 x Scintillant Ingot - 120k
1 x Rubber Harness - Can use your own Ampoules (15k) to get. Otherwise price unknown due to 0 sales on all servers.

Just under 5m to have it made assuming you use Ampoules to buy your own Rubber Harness. Hides aren't exactly easy to get unless your LS regularly kills Cerb. And even then Hides are generally used to make Mantles and if it is given to you, the cost is no longer a legit concern as it has now become an LS sponsored item (Which Salvage pieces could also be). There are multiple factors to consider with this due to the Cerb Leather issue.

So let's figure 3m difference between Ares & Shadow Breastplate. Which is the more useful stat: Auto-Regen or Auto-Refresh?

I highly doubt the avg bg reader gets 20k/hr in a merit pt, certainly the avg merit pt isn't evne close to that.

20k/hr isn't that hard unless you're at a crowded camp and are competing for pulls. Or unless you're in a random pick-up merit party.

Most people in hnmls barely even merit.

I don't merit often, but that's because I use my free time to level other jobs. You make it sound like everyone camps 24/7 and has no free time. Currently everyone in the shell I'm in has been free to do whatever for the past 8+ hours. Most are exping jobs til Dynamis. Not sure of your shell's schedule, but I'd imagine you aren't doing events/camping 24/7.

Oh, and I already addressed why I mentioned the relic upgrading, thanks for reading.

[bercus]

Now I found the Topic I was looking for >.<
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewto ... 19#p742019