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  1. #181
    Banned.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Akanei
    Because aspir on a job with 103-113 skill is absolute fail; not to mention the lack of monsters you'd actually have to use it against, unless you still solo crabs @ 75.

    Personally would choose swapping to a kinkobo and getting a spirit taker off over shitty aspir, dark/pluto staff or not.

    Edit: Would argue that reraise is rather pointless too since that's resolved by carrying an earring, or hairpin/gorget if you have the extra money to throw into such things. DS is nice for those clutch situations, or even saving time, but I hardly find a use for it, other than the latter.

    If only /sch had erase. -_-

    Edit 2: On the other hand, sublimation doesn't resolve the question. A piece with no detrimental effects for the sake of 1mp/tick is better than taking 2/tick on top of whatever else some mob would dot you with, or hit you with, effectively canceling out the mp you just gained, since the fast /sch spells you have access to cost 9+mp.

    You can say "oh just do it when you're not fighting", but then you may as well just be resting or doing spirit taker, since both of those would give you mp faster than sublimation ever would.
    http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Scholar

  2. #182
    Ryko's Full of Lies and Johns
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Okay? So you corrected me, making the skill 101-111 (nq crimson hands). I had A- skill in my head since I was thinking of sch main with af; my bad?

    So it's even worse.

  3. #183
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Akanei
    Because aspir on a job with 103-113 skill is absolute fail;
    The poster above could have directed you to the page for Dark Arts. Your skill climbs to B even when subbed. Not a /37 B but a 75 B.

    Edit: Would argue that reraise is rather pointless too since that's resolved by carrying an earring, or hairpin/gorget if you have the extra money to throw into such things. DS is nice for those clutch situations, or even saving time, but I hardly find a use for it, other than the latter.

    If only /sch had erase. -_-
    I agree, buy a scroll of instant reraise or invest in a rr gear.
    It's not clear to me what DS is for unless your wyvern is dead.
    It sucks to lose erase, but you gain these toys:
    Sleep and Dispel (B Rating)
    Stratagems - Every 2 minutes, cast a spell for half cost or at double speed. Plus it stacks to 2 charges.

    Edit 2: On the other hand, sublimation doesn't resolve the question. A piece with no detrimental effects for the sake of 1mp/tick is better than taking 2/tick on top of whatever else some mob would dot you with, or hit you with, effectively canceling out the mp you just gained, since the fast /sch spells you have access to cost 9+mp.
    We're splitting hairs here but Poisona is 8mp and has the same 1 second casting time as Dia.
    Regen 2 over Regen more than covers the HP loss from Sublimation. Even if it didn't, because lets say you don't bother casting Regen, 2 HP loss to 1 MP gained is a fantastic ratio and even moreso for a DRG/mage that gains a crapton of HP per MP spent.

  4. #184
    Ryko's Full of Lies and Johns
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gergall
    Quote Originally Posted by Akanei
    Because aspir on a job with 103-113 skill is absolute fail;
    The poster above could have directed you to the page for Dark Arts. Your skill climbs to B even when subbed. Not a /37 B but a 75 B.
    Oh? Interesting. I always thought that was a bug that got ninja fix'd. My mistake on that, then.

  5. #185
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Even though personally i'd be thrilled if DRG could wear Parade Gorget (given that Ares body is the only piece of gear DRG has that can offer Refresh) or if something similar was introduced, this conversation is just going to go the route of "use a different subjob" and that's not the point. Yes, DRG can change their sub, anyone can change their sub or their main job. If that's the argument then no job needs any adjustment that relates to something another job can do... they should just change jobs. BLMs QQing about SCH's new power, just change to SCH. MNKs QQing about JA's and adjustments, just change to SAM, etc etc etc...

    I hate talking about adding Job Abilities but if DRG was given say, Lancet @ lv35 as a 5 minute JA that steals HP/MP/TP from a mob it would benefit every aspect of the job, whether it be DRG/melee or DRG/mage. It would also provide incentive to sub DRG, which is something SE claims to be trying to do (not sub DRG specifically, just different SJs).

  6. #186
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kkel
    BLMs QQing about SCH's new power, just change to SCH. MNKs QQing about JA's and adjustments, just change to SAM, etc etc etc...
    Well; BLM VS SCH

    SCH has:
    • 4 less int @ 75[/*:m:157edeid]
    • 20 less elemental skill, 5 less with AF Body[/*:m:157edeid]
    • Can wear most of the same MAB gear[/*:m:157edeid]
    • All the same spells[/*:m:157edeid]
    • Can AOE Tier 3's for less than the cost of a -ga III, Can AOE Tier IV's[/*:m:157edeid]
    • Can swap to a main healer and back again in less than a minute[/*:m:157edeid]
    • Has -na's w/o subbing RDM[/*:m:157edeid]
    • A bunch of other crap that isn't worth getting into[/*:m:157edeid]


    So basically, for endgame SCH = BLM, but can do more with just as much.

    But BLM and SCH play very similarly, MNK and SAM not so much. Part of the reason you see some jobs bitching so much is that while some jobs are very different than they where 2 years ago (SAM, PLD, SMN, BST, RNG)* others are -exactly- the same (MNK, WHM, RDM, NIN, BLM) and others have gotten side grades that do make them more useful, but do nothing to change the way the job plays (THF, WAR, BRD, DRG, DRK).

    So you have 4 revamped jobs, 5 jobs with new things that are useful but not to the point where anythings done differently, and 5 jobs who haven't had jack shit in 2+ years outside of situational T2 merits; some of which have lolworthy recast timers.

    *I didn't say it was a good thing in all cases

  7. #187
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Yeah, that's the whole point. Different jobs do different things and people play different jobs because they like them and/or they're useful. This really has nothing to do with what job (or in this case, mage subjob) you pick, just some MP help for a job that uses MP.

  8. #188
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Well look at Blu. Depending on its sub the uses and functionality changes greatly. Same with RDM and SMN.

    Now look at PLD. You have 2 possible Sub in most situations, Nin or war. Anything else gets you laughed at, unless your supertanking then BLU or RDM can work as well, but only in this situations. Or MNK; you have 3. Anything with MP gets you laughed at, anything other than those is viewed as useless due to lack of damage mitigation / lack of specific damage.

    Its easy enough to just change jobs, but no one wants to go through the pain in the ass of leveling another job because the ones they have leveled are made not as effective. It would be really cool if instead of the mentality that 'go level something else' they made it so other jobs could preform other roles either better or that they hadn't had the ability to do before.

    I'm glad I've been leveling RDM instead of BLM right now, I'd be a world of pissed off as well after the last update, but only because I'd have just leveled it. I imagine the 'old skool' BLM's probably don't care as much because they can still make SCH look LOL end game.

  9. #189
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Its easy enough to just change jobs, but no one wants to go through the pain in the ass of leveling another job because the ones they have leveled are made not as effective. It would be really cool if instead of the mentality that 'go level something else' they made it so other jobs could preform other roles either better or that they hadn't had the ability to do before.
    That's exactly right.

  10. #190
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Um...SCH cannot AOE nukes.

  11. #191
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kkel
    Its easy enough to just change jobs, but no one wants to go through the pain in the ass of leveling another job because the ones they have leveled are made not as effective. It would be really cool if instead of the mentality that 'go level something else' they made it so other jobs could preform other roles either better or that they hadn't had the ability to do before.
    That's exactly right.
    I think if they made soloing exp better through quests or something (was really hoping campaign ops would do this) and possibly lower the exp tnl a bit more it might make that problem less acute. At the moment it's a big enough annoyance to lvl a sub nvm a full job not to mention the grinding to get decent gear and merits to make you function proficiently. Raising the the total amount of merits in any give category would be nice and make enmity merits to be toggled - or + not swapping the points (don't make them refundable just make it so you could turn the given type off if you like.)

    If it was easier to get multiple jobs I'd bet you there'd be less worry of who's slightly better for one event or the other.

  12. #192
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Toth
    Um...SCH cannot AOE nukes.
    Dur on my part. You're right, I was thinking of accession.

  13. #193

    Re: Question Discussion

    as far as campaign changes i kind of thought a way to kill two birds with one stone as far as opening up exp camps and making there a point to controlling areas, is maybe if the allied forces control an area (or to make it more SE like, your nation) you get a huge exp buff when killing monsters in that area like something along the lines of a perma empress band, and if a beastmen controls the area maybe the opposite. That would not only make controlling areas actually worth something other then minor shit but also possibly open up some new exp camps

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