INT vs. Magic Atk. Bonus

[Redness]

I did a quick search, but didn't come up with any threads like this, so here's we goes.

I just came back after a month long break, and I was redoing all my RDM macros (thanks to a reformat without using half a braincell to upload my macro set to the server, GG.) and I came across a dilemma.

How does INT compare to Magic Atk. Bonus? My previous belief was that 1 Magic Atk. Bonus was = to 2 INT. I asked this question in LS and someone said it was 5 INT, not 2.

Dear BG, halp.

Yigit gomlek
[Body] All Races
DEF: 40 Evasion +7
"Magic Atk. Bonus" +5
Song spellcasting time -10%
MP recovered while healing +5
Set: Adds "Refresh" effect
Lv. 72 WHM / BLM / RDM / BRD / SMN / BLU / SCH

OR

Errant Houppelande
[Body] All Races
DEF: 42 STR -7 DEX -7 VIT -7 AGI -7
INT +10 MND +10 CHR +10 Enmity -3
MP recovered while healing +5
Lv. 72 WHM / BLM / RDM / BRD / SMN / BLU /
PUP / SCH

Inb4 Morrigan's Robe.

[Therin]

Pretty sure MAB is calculated completely differently than INT and is much more effective toward damage. To answer your question though, I'd use Errant, because you're a RDM and chances are your nukes or going to get resisted. INT helps with resist rate, MAB will not.

[Zosi]

Just a thought, but if you need a straight damage comparison, Tele-Mea and nuke a sapling or something? It's definitely not 5:1, though. 2:1 or 2.5:1 depending on the tier of the spell in question would be a better guess.

[Starr]

Why has noone ever made a calculator for magic damage?

[Redness]

So then it's probably not worth the 20k AP, and I should spam that all into my horrible (see sig) Arrapago record in hopes that my robe will drop finally. Rockin'.

I'm still interested in hard numbers of MAB vs INT, not sure I'm the right person to test that though, my brain and maths are not good.

[Crizto]

Use errant to avoid resists. I never saw any real difference between the two pieces in terms of damage, but resist rates were much lower using errant instead of yigit.

[Secksi]

Crizto is a pretty horrible Rdm, I wouldn't listen to him. He doesn't even have a Duelist Chapeau.

Honestly though I'd do what he said if I were a Rdm.

[Zosi]

My own somewhat unscientific tests (nuking random stuff in Jugner on the way to get today's Dynamis hourglass) showed that the difference in damage was statistically insignificant. Nuking Screamers with Fire III on BLM, the damage varied from 676 to 680 regardless of which was used, which was probably just the level variation.

[Suiram]

This has been answered a few times, it's just difficult to find it on search since you can't use 3-letter words like "INT" and "MAB". The short answer is that there is no consistent ratio you can use, like 2:1 or 5:1, and "testing" on a Sapling or a Screamer or any other specific mob aside from the one you are actually concerned with won't help either. The relative increase in damage from adding INT depends on a lot of factors, including those that vary depending on the stats of the mob you are fighting. But for a RDM nuking a tier 3 spell, adding 10 INT is going to add somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5%~7% damage, depending on the spell, your INT, and the mob's INT. Adding 5 MAB is going to add, in the best case--well worst case really because it means you have no other MAB gear--4% more damage, and in the other case (let's just stipule +25 MAB from gear in other slots, although I don't know what's reasonable for a RDM) it'll be 3.4% more damage.

Although the above numbers suggest that Errant will be better, the range of 3.5~7 are the extremes (7% comes from nuking Stone III against a mob that otherwise has the same INT as you do, which is not going to give you numbers you are satisfied with either way), it really just does depend on the situation. However as other people have pointed out there's also the (as yet unquantified) accuracy bonus from INT that is not present in MAB.

[tymora]

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Magic_Damage

Good place to look. Int better on some mobs, MAB better on some.

[Plight]

Why has noone ever made a calculator for magic damage?

It's not 100% accurate, and more geared to SCH, but y'all are welcome to use what I've been playing with: http://prighters.googlepages.com/Magic_Damage.xls

For some reason, it always gives a warning about not being able to use macros because of security, but that won't prevent it from working the way it should. Suggestions are welcome, though editing it for yourself is easy enough. Nothing below the "Other" field needs to be modified unless you know what you're doing.

[Gippo]

i dont have any magic formula, but some basic facts to remember is that int is a linear damage modifier, while magic attack bonus is a percent modifier

thats why early on, jobs that use int will see a much greater end result vs. near end game.

eventually the percent increase of the mab will always overtake any increase in int.

mab first then int , assuming you can break past the mobs int factor. This is when you see ppl use the houppalande(sp?). It's wierd to explain. >.>

[Suiram]

That's kinda right, or rather on the right track anyway. The main reason they are difficult to compare is more that it's difficult to know (without a high level of familiarity with the formula) what exactly you are comparing against. For instance if adding INT was always a static bonus, or if MAB+5 really meant "5% more damage" then it would be easy, but that's not how it works. All of your various MAB bonuses are totaled first before being applied, so MAB+5 is really "An additional amount of damage totaling 5% of what your damage would be without any MAB at all" and the relative bonus from it works out to be "the ratio of your new aggregate MAB to your old MAB" which is always (at least in the case of jobs with native MAB job trait) going to be less than the value listed on the piece. Figuring out what your base damage is for a spell (to determine the bonus from adding INT) is even less practical for a target without known stats, since the ability to go through your actual damage and solve backwards to your base damage requires an understanding of the magic damage formula that would negate the need to have asked such a question in the first place.

[Zosi]

(Two posts containing three paragraphs of WAAAY too much information for someone asking a simple question.)

Lots of nice theory, but taking a few hundred words to say "Shit's situational" helps about as much as my nuking of saplings, which, by the way, wasn't at all intended as any kind of conclusive proof. I know you're proud of your knowledge of the magic damage formula, but believe me, 99% of cases don't need a treatise on the technically precise effects of INT. In this guy's case it's pretty clear, neither one will make a big difference in general, and one costs 20k AP. Go with the Errant and don't look back.

[Sanoske]

Like people have said.

MAB will be much more noticeable the higher the spell tier. So you will notice none/very little difference on a tier 1-3 spell, yet a good amount on tier 4 or AM/2. (Which doesnt matter since your RDM)

The way I look at it is this. MAB raises the hard cap. INT is an odd combo of Elemental Skill and MAB, which raises the dmg cap(if not as much as MAB) and effects how often you reach that cap. I could never get any definite results when I'd use INT build vs Elemental Skill, so I cant really say exactly how it effects resists.

For nuking tier 3 I'd say just stick with the Errant Body. Not worth the 20k AP unless you really want that MAB or the MPh from the set.

[Suiram]

(Two posts containing three paragraphs of WAAAY too much information for someone asking a simple question.)

Lots of nice theory, but taking a few hundred words to say "Shit's situational" helps about as much as my nuking of saplings, which, by the way, wasn't at all intended as any kind of conclusive proof. I know you're proud of your knowledge of the magic damage formula, but believe me, 99% of cases don't need a treatise on the technically precise effects of INT. In this guy's case it's pretty clear, neither one will make a big difference in general, and one costs 20k AP. Go with the Errant and don't look back.

My response wasn't so much to the OP, who obviously just had a practical question that Therin adequately answered in the first reply in this thread (and before your ill-considered sapling advice, for that matter), but moreso to the people who were giving responses that were counter-beneficial to the original question. I also didn't answer out of any sort of pride that you've ascribed to me, as I don't see how much there is to be proud of knowing how and when to multiply and divide, although it is something I'm capable of doing with the aid of a calculator and I do try to answer magic-related questions when I see them come up because I figure I might as well help as best I can. Although I'll admit my posts can be long-winded and tangential, a person can take as much or as little from them as they are interested in, and I don't see the point in your being snotty about it.

[Zosi]

I don't see the point in your being snotty about it.

Just returning the favor. Enough arguing, though, back on topic.

[Apollyon]

Personally, I found with my gear setup, that my RDM does better with an Errant Body on Tier 3 nukes than a Yigit Body. Your mileage may vary.


I take ZERO Credit for this application, and I wish I could remember where I found this.... Anyway, rehosted to Filefront.

This app is a damage calculator for black magic spells.

http://files.filefront.com/blm+calczip/ ... einfo.html

Screenshot:

[Maimildre]

Well as everyone’s said it depends on your Current base MAB, how much INT your over the target and the spell your casting. So the only that should really be changing from mob to mob is your INT over it.

I got in a similar argument a long time ago(like over a year but with Yigit Head over AF+1 for BLM and someone put out a formula for when to use ea. I dont quite remember where it was posted but isnt too hard to recreate.

Under the assumption that: (?INT)*TIM+SDC)*MAB is the correct formula for determining magic damage. You can get:
((x+a)*TIM+SDC)*MAB=(x*TIM+SDC)*(MAB+b)
Where x is your INT over the target, a the +INT, b the +MaB.

Proofing ;o hope it looks right
(x(TIM) + a(TIM) + SDC) * MAB > x(TIM)(MAB + b) + SDC(MAB +b)
x (TIM)(MAB) + a(TIM)(MAB) + SDC(MAB) > x(TIM)(MAB) +x(TIM)(b) +SDC(MAB)+SDC(b)
a(TIM)(MAB) > x(TIM)(b) + SDC(b)
[a(TIM)(MAB) - SDC(b)] / TIM(b)
x = a(MAB)/b - SDC/TIM

so Moldy, ZMitts(or MCuffs), Duelist Feet, thats 1.38 MAB right?
a = 10 b = .05
Thunder 3 SDC = 345 TIM = 1.5
Blizzard 3 SDC = 320 TIM = 1.5

x = 10(1.38)/.05 - 345/1.5
x = 46

So at 46 INT over the target they are equal, at 47 INT over the target MaB +.05 is greater, and 45 INT (or less) over the target +10 INT. That seems pretty high to me, but no unreachable, so in most circumstances go with the +10 Errant!

Main source: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calcu ... gic_Damage

[Tormentormike]

Either I'm doing it wrong or that calculator is no where near correct.