Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[futan]

Btw, just a thought on the whole "Why didn't the 2nd group see Gulool Ja Ja or Gurfurlur?" discussed earlier. Maybe between the Besieged monsters and Serpent Generals it's <Gulool OR Gurf OR Medusa>, rather than all 3.

It's still a seperate pattern though, so something had to be done to trigger it to deviate from it.

[Sagacious Sundi]

It's still a seperate pattern though, so something had to be done to trigger it to deviate from it.

What do you mean?

[Cairthenn]

It's still a seperate pattern though, so something had to be done to trigger it to deviate from it.

Something in the users control must be done to get a different number every time you type /random too, right?

[futan]

It went 4 Salvage bosses > 3 Besieged mobs > 1 Besieged leader > 2 Generals before depop. Gurfurlur OR Gulool OR Medusa is a different pattern than the one shown before and after. It went through all the Salvage Bosses, not a random one. You would imagine that if the Gurfurlur OR Gulool OR Medusa idea is correct, it would have to be triggered by something because it's different from the pattern shown before and after. This is of course assuming that it can even transform into Gurfurlur and Gulool. Sorry if this made no sense either.

Something in the users control must be done to get a different number every time you type /random too, right?

I didn't know /random showed any kind of pattern...

[Cairthenn]

Or they could have made it random.

I don't know and neither to do you; it being different isn't necessarily the result of doing something differently.

[Sagacious Sundi]

It went 4 Salvage bosses > 3 Besieged mobs > 1 Besieged leader > 2 Generals before depop. Gurfurlur OR Gulool OR Medusa is a different pattern than the one shown before and after. It went through all the Salvage Bosses, not a random one. You would imagine that if the Gurfurlur OR Gulool OR Medusa idea is correct, it would have to be triggered by something because it's different from the pattern shown before and after. This is of course assuming that it can even transform into Gurfurlur and Gulool. Sorry if this made no sense either.

Yeah, but the order of the mobs within each group seems to be random, considering both PW's popped so far started off as different chariots. Also, they enjoyed having random stuff in Nyzul and Einherjar. I understand what you're saying about patterns, but randomness doesn't sound too farfetched.

[Kaylia]

Both started with zhayolm charriot afaik.

[Jackyl]

Both started with zhayolm charriot afaik.

nope. arrapago chariot first for our LS.

[futan]

nope. arrapago chariot first for our LS.

That's interesting. I thought the same as Kaylia.

[Khamsin]

nope. arrapago chariot first for our LS.

Although you still went through all 4, correct? Do you remember the order?

[Jackyl]

Although you still went through all 4, correct? Do you remember the order?

from page 1 >

AC > LAC > LBC > BC > Acroliths > Troll > Mamoool > Lamia > Generals (presumably all 5) > ??? > Profit.

[Ahlah]

I don't have any evidence to support my theory, just what I have observed from doing ZNM.

Is it possible to keep lamps busy while PW is being killed? The information from this thread is a little vague on hate sharing between PW and lamps. A lot of ZNMs summon minions mid fight and attempt to deal with NM + adds usually complicate the fight.

The title hypothesis sounds interesting but it seems unlikely SE will go through the trouble to program PW and make it possible to stop it from changing form. I mean they could have just forced players to complete all those quests before pandemonium key can be traded to ???.

My guess is all forms must be killed to beat PW, perhaps if we can find a way to separate PW and lamps. The unusual high hp of pandemomium lamps also supports kiting strategy.
Only problem is it's been mentioned that PW only switch to different form if all lamps are killed. Can some1 confirm this?

[Max™]

Killing all but 1 lamp repopped the same chariot, killing all of them repopped a different PW version each time.

Still unknown what killing 0 lamps will do, but I'm betting it'll be interesting.

[Sagacious Sundi]

There is definitely an order. Both groups got a chariot first, second group got 4 chariots in a row, 3~4 Besieged/beastman related mobs in a row, 2 generals in a row. To anyone who thinks that's merely a coincidence, all I have to say is "Is Sage Sundi gonna have to choke a bitch?" But within those "groups" of mobs, there's a seemingly random order, probably to keep people on their toes and to prevent the fight from becoming too predictable later on.

Killing all but 1 lamp repopped the same chariot, killing all of them repopped a different PW version each time.

Still unknown what killing 0 lamps will do, but I'm betting it'll be interesting.

Did we ever see a pic of the "repopped Zhayolm/Discoid/battleclad/battledressed chariot"? There's still the idea that it was a Bhaflau/Homing Missile/long-bowed/long-gunned chariot.

And it'll probably be interesting, if difficulty and slaughter is interesting to you. Didn't Jackyl say that kiting lamps is near impossible 'cause they'll eventually run back to PW's target?

[Max™]

I am pretty sure that I saw a report of Discoid off the repopped chariot, but could be wrong of course.

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous to fight without killing them, as has been said time and time and time and time again, but the point still stands, is it more or less ridiculous than 10-15 repops?

[Genosync]

picture

that's a pandemonium

"Pandæmonium" (American English "Pandemonium") stems from Greek "παν", meaning "all" or "every", and "δαιμόνιον", meaning "little spirit" or "little angel", or, as Christians interpreted it, "little daemon", and later, "demon" (thus roughly translated as "All Demons"). It is the name invented by John Milton for the capital of Hell, "the High Capital, of Satan and his Peers", built by the fallen angels at the suggestion of Mammon at the end of Book I, Paradise Lost (1667). A comparison in meaning can be made with "pantheon", which refers to all of the gods. Book II begins with the debate among the demons in the council-chamber of Pandæmonium. The demons built it in about an hour, but it far surpassed all human palaces or dwellings; it may have been small, though, since the demons are described as shrinking from their titanic size in order to fit in.

not only that but you're seeming to forget that we're talking about pandemonium in the case of the final fantasy series which iirc deals with the wind element

[Sagacious Sundi]

In FF8, it was a wind-based GF (AKA Pandemona). In FF2 it was the capital of hell. In FF9, it was a castle with demonic architecture but not exactly relating to hell. In FF12 Pandaemonium was an earth-based(?) turtle. In FFT it was a Wonder as an homage to FF2's Pandy.

EDIT: Earlier we were talking about monster/NPC .dat entries and stuff like the game renaming them right? Well, it does do that for Clash of the Comrades (fellowship LB70 quest). In the .dats there's just a placeholder named "Adam", which is renamed to your fellow's name when you fight.

[Khamsin]

In FF8, it was a wind-based GF (AKA Pandemona). In FF2 it was the capital of hell. In FF9, it was a castle with demonic architecture but not exactly relating to hell. In FF12 Pandaemonium was an earth-based(?) turtle. In FFT it was a Wonder as an homage to FF2's Pandy.

And also in FF12, Mateus (the emperor from FF2, ruler of hell residing in pandemonium) was an ice-based avatar.

[Max™]

EDIT: Earlier we were talking about monster/NPC .dat entries and stuff like the game renaming them right? Well, it does do that for Clash of the Comrades (fellowship LB70 quest). In the .dats there's just a placeholder named "Adam", which is renamed to your fellow's name when you fight.

Interestingereliciousness.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Well, I'm not 100% sure it's renamed. It's possible that the "Adams" are like the Mammet Masters and Pudding Masters used for Uninvited Guests and Omens, but I doubt that.