Absolute Virtue ~ 9/8/08

[DancingEdge]

We're talking about one percent, not regrouping at 50%.

Read the rest of the thread indeed. All you need from the stuff I read in the thread is like one AM2 which reportedly does 2%.

I know, my question was so offensive. My bad, dawg.

[Therin]

Have you ever participated in an AV fight? Most of the time, if you wipe, it's really ugly, and by the time it's killed everyone in the alliance it's already regenned 3-4%, which is over a thousand damage. Unless you've got a party of like 6 BLMs outside and over 25 units anyway ready to run in and ES Burst II as soon as it goes yellow, there's probably no saving a wipe unless you've wiped above 79% and can fully recover (as the Odin team-up did).

[Theraven]

Have you ever participated in an AV fight? Most of the time, if you wipe, it's really ugly, and by the time it's killed everyone in the alliance it's already regenned 3-4%, which is over a thousand damage. Unless you've got a party of like 6 BLMs outside and over 25 units anyway ready to run in and ES Burst II as soon as it goes yellow, there's probably no saving a wipe unless you've wiped above 79% and can fully recover (as the Odin team-up did).

Yep, this is what happened to us.

[DancingEdge]

I'm neurotic enough to have had a BLM on standby for such a situation, or at least for d2's.



If everyone had RR up, RR'd immediately, and immediately engaged, I dunno.... maybe, maybe not.

Who am I to say, I've never done an AV fight. I didn't think the mention of a last ditch effort at a super low HP wipe would have triggered hostility, though.


Edit: I mean hell, didn't I read that they aren't even WS'ing? If everyone managed to shoot their TP off before they got killed again, that might have pushed it over the edge. Maybe that's genuine lack of experience on my part, but fuck if I'd get that far and not try anyway.

[Therin]

You're right, no reason to yell at you or whatever. AV is a beast that you don't understand until you've come in contact with it, though. That regen alone is so potent that it pretty much dissolves any possibility of recovery at low percentages unless you have a LARGE force on standby.

[DancingEdge]

Oh come on, it's not that ridiculous of a statement, I know the WS isn't good or anything, just saying that 10+ melee with 300 TP would have to do -something- ...

And DRK get Judgment for the record, lol. It's actually got a nice TP modifier, never used the WS personally though so I've no clue if it does real damage or not. =P

Someone wanna go test it on AV? ;D

[algrensan]

It's not exactly difficult to test the power of weapons against each other. I did Gekko to JoL about 5 times with both GKs at 300 TP, every time with minuetx2 and a fresh herculean etude for about +85 STR and ~650 attack. Every single Gekko I did with the Futsuno did more than Amano, and the fact that I was getting 21 TP/swing with Futsuno makes me think it's pretty clear that it would do more damage to any mid-high/high defense HNM, where Kaiten does 500 or less most of the time.

what did gekko and kaiten do at 100 tp for futsuno and amano respectively?

[Therin]

Oh come on, it's not that ridiculous of a statement, I know the WS isn't good or anything, just saying that 10+ melee with 300 TP would have to do -something- ...

And DRK get Judgment for the record, lol. It's actually got a nice TP modifier, never used the WS personally though so I've no clue if it does real damage or not. =P

Someone wanna go test it on AV? ;D

Weaponskilling during DRK zerg actually lowers your potential DPS because the weaponskill won't do enough damage to counter-balance the swings that didn't go off during the time that it took to weaponskill.

[DancingEdge]

Aye, I read as much. Same thing on most zerg/burgs. I was more talking if they had RR up, and had 300TP -because- they weren't WS'ing during the zerg, everyone RR'd and got a Judgment off, as fast as possible.

/shrug

Not like I'm really saying what would or wouldn't have worked. Just saying.

[Zosi]

DancingEdge, what you'd have to be able to do to recover from a 1% wipe would be to literally one-shot several thousand HP immediately after it went unclaimed. Your "backup alliance" of BLMs would basically have to already be running into position (preferably with Flee or Hermes Quenchers) BEFORE the wipe, because if they were safely out of Meteor/AOE range when the wipe happened, they're too far away to kill it before it regens into "invincibility" territory.

I call it "invincibility" territory because if you wipe at <79%, it gains the ability to do its lovely insta-cast Meteor and Comet (among other things) at will, which makes any kind of zerg attempt completely impossible. It retains that ability after regenning, even to 100%. People have recovered from wipes that happened before 79%, nobody has even come close to recovering from a low-% wipe, and barring some absolutely massive change in strategy, it's not going to happen.

Edit: Your WSs would do virtually nothing for damage. A freshly RRed army of DRKs would have no buffs available, and unbuffed club WSs versus AV are a joke. Even 10-12 300% True Strikes wouldn't dent the HP that AV regenned just in the time it took everyone to RR and WS, and immediately after the first post-RR WS went off, AV would be raping the shit out of anyone and everyone in the alliance.

[Ruiner]

Oh come on, it's not that ridiculous of a statement, I know the WS isn't good or anything, just saying that 10+ melee with 300 TP would have to do -something- ...

And DRK get Judgment for the record, lol. It's actually got a nice TP modifier, never used the WS personally though so I've no clue if it does real damage or not. =P

Someone wanna go test it on AV? ;D

It's not going to do enough damage as if they just kept swinging with SE/BW on.

[Contract]

On JoL, 100 TP Gekko with Futsuno does 700~850, Kaiten does 400~600, sometimes you'll see 700+ but it's very rare.

[DancingEdge]

That's nuts, but like I said, never fought AV. gogo backup alliance of RNG to 2hour it when it goes unclaimed? >.>

[dys0r]

Apparently, DancingEdge didn't get the memo about AV having a fuckton of defense, and insane evasion/parrying.

[Ruiner]

That's nuts, but like I said, never fought AV. gogo backup alliance of RNG to 2hour it when it goes unclaimed? >.>

Gogo nothing can practically save you from a wipe under 79% ever.

[DancingEdge]

A fully ally of rng to blow 2hours on a 1% AV is hardly practical, I'm just joking.

[Ramses]

Ffs give the guy a break, it was a reasonable question. Stop trying to make yourselves feel better by acting like an ass.

[DancingEdge]

They're not being that bad, no way for them to know that I've never even seen AV in person ;D

[Yugl]

No, he suggested that because one WS is more damage then the GK was better. There is no evidence of this.

You should look back at the posts to see what Contract said earlier. It's true he claimed Futsuno to outperformed Amano because of WS damage and 5-hit build, but he also said that Amano out performs Futsuno in merit PTs, which is what I was responding to in Vax's post.

The STR+8 latent effect is only active on WS, so you never see it on your STR stat. Also, that GK is officially more powerful than Amano for Gekko by a good amount, and the delay gives you a 5-hit setup easily.

Really makes me wish I didn't get Amano except for meriting, which is the only area I can see it being any better.

Here he says Futsuno better overall except for in merits

Yeah, don't suggest Futsuno is better than Amano in merit bt just because of a 5 hit build. You're forgetting Kaiten's strength, the lower delay.. the 2.5 proc... etc-etc-etc...

I responded to Vax because he says Contract claims Futsuno is better than Amano in merit PTs which is untrue. I hope that clarifies the situation for you. Of course I'm not arguing which Great Katana is better, I'm just clarifying what Contract said.

[Cautery]

When on 1st attempt, all died at 1%, a RNG woke up immidiatly and shot a WS then died immidiatly after. I'm wondering what would have happened if I had Mijin'd after it went yellow...