Quebec to not sell English video games if French version exists

[Annihilator]

Much like Texas, the one guy from Quebec comes into the thread to make sure everyone knows that Quebec is the best thing since sliced bread, and that everyone hates it for no reason other than the fact that everyone else hates it.

someone needs to learn to read...

[Day]

How can you type without being able to read? Must be a canadian thang

[Ragns]

montreal sounds like the coolest canadian city

FYI BG servers are hosted in a datacenter in montreal.

[Darus Grey]

BG est Qubecois!
L'horreur!

[Oulanbator]

Well, I'm not sure speaking French in this forum is a good thing.
This forum is in English for English speakers. Popping some French in it just tease the idiot haters, and confuses the normal people.

It's cool to be proud to speak French, to enjoy the language, the culture or whatever, and to be happy to promote it. However imposing a language others users won't understand is somehow having the opposite effect: people don't understand, they feel excluded, they wonder what you're saying, if it's cool or mean...

[Jefe]

This calls for: YouTube - Triumph insult comic dog

Anyway, it's canada so who gives a fuck lol (skipped all posts).

[Oulanbator]

This calls for: YouTube - Triumph insult comic dog

Pretty retarded to make fun of people not speaking English... especially when you aren't able either to speak a second language. It's quite pathetic to see Americans making fun of people not being able to speak two languages, while the stereotyped average american is known for not being able to speak a single foreign language.

Btw, the retardness of this show is explicit about who is the stupidest of both: is it an American or a Canadian show ?

[SubzeroDiabolos]

They certainly didn't take the time to ask our opinions because i'd much rather play games in english than french because believe it or not it's easier to understand. Videogames in french are just horrible when it comes to making a character have expressions.

Pis une note en passant pour tout ceux qui chiale a propos du quebec allez donc prendre une marche sua 30 en sens inverse.

/rageon all you want, i'm ready


EDIT: Wait what, BG servers are in Montreal? That's interesting. Not that I can do anything about it but it's interesting anyway.

[Kaylia]

It's cool to be proud to speak French, to enjoy the language, the culture or whatever, and to be happy to promote it. However imposing a language others users won't understand is somehow having the opposite effect: people don't understand, they feel excluded, they wonder what you're saying, if it's cool or mean...

Taking pride in a language is fucking retarded. It's just a fancy tool to communicate, and most 5 years old can do it pretty well.

Trying to protect a language is also stupid. just let it evolve like everything else. I'm sure latin was doing the job back then, but various circumstance made it dissapears. If french is bound to dissapears, so be it.

Seriously, I would like to see a rational explanation from people who believes it's a good thing to preserve a language?

[Darus Grey]

*insert incredibly long and boring argument about the scientific importance of preserving a language, due to the fact that our language colors the way we think, and there's a lot of scientific advancements in cognitive science that are in jeopardy due to thousands of languages dying off*

Of course all us linguists need is a codex, once we have compiled that...we don't need anyone who actually speaks it anymore.

[Kaylia]

And what advancement in cognitive science is in jeopardy?

I agree that each language possess certain subtlety that make people think slightly differently, but in the end, rational thinking and mathematics should be the same for everyone.

[Darus Grey]

And what advancement in cognitive science is in jeopardy?

I agree that each language possess certain subtlety that make people think slightly differently, but in the end, rational thinking and mathematics should be the same for everyone.

This isn't true, which is why it's important. The way we word things tells us about the mental processes behind those thoughts, different language speakers rationalize things in *dramatically* different ways, also math is not a universal concept.

The *main* thing we lose though, is right now, language is a major instrument in us reconstructing the biological evolution of the brain, and the less examples we have to draw on, the harder it gets. We *need* conceptual metaphor maps.

It's also a record of culture. Think about the common english idiom "raining cats and dogs"...in french it's ropes, in latin it's tears, japanese it's sand and rock. Those "subtle" differences are reflections about the society that the language came from, and a whole collection tells you things about that culture that you would not be able to find otherwise. This is a major reason we see so many modern linguists frantically recording/transcribing the 4000+ languages(many with just a handful of speakers) we're expected to lose over the next few decades. Out of the 8000+ known languages on the planet, only about 300ish have any kind of serious Orthography...once those speakers die, that knowledge is lost forever if we don't preserve it.

Obviously I take great contention to your notion that different languages have no value ;0

[Kaylia]

If two person speaking different languages come to different rational conclusions, I can tell you at least one of them is wrong, started with a different premise, or got mixed up with his definition. Basically, both person are talking about two different things.

If they want to communicate, they will eventually have to use the exact same language, and will come to the same conclusion.

It's also a record of culture. Think about the common english idiom "raining cats and dogs"...in french it's ropes, in latin it's tears, japanese it's sand and rock. Those "subtle" differences are reflections about the society that the language came from, and a whole collection tells you things about that culture that you would not be able to find otherwise. This is a major reason we see so many modern linguists frantically recording/transcribing the 4000+ languages(many with just a handful of speakers) we're expected to lose over the next few decades. Out of the 8000+ known languages on the planet, only about 300ish have any kind of serious Orthography...once those speakers die, that knowledge is lost forever if we don't preserve it.

Ok, first of all, what does "preservering a language" mean for you? Are you talking about keeping archives on that particular language, or make laws to prevent a group from being assimilated by another?


If the language is dead, no one use it anymore, and no one need to understand the meaning of this particular idiom. Useful information is filtered and passed down to the next generation, and the useless part is forgotten.

...once those speakers die, that knowledge is lost forever if we don't preserve it.

Unless he was a fucking hermit who lived in the middle of nowhere, no, it's not "lost". The useful information was probably transmitted to person close to him.


I don't understand the point of collecting language. It's the same as someone who own a scrapyard because he isn't able to throw away a single thing. Not everything is useful, and not everything deserve to be preserved.

[Mytiwar]

The most important thing I've read in this thread is that I can walk up to BG's servers and remove Neosutra from them.


brb

[Darus Grey]

If two person speaking different languages come to different rational conclusions, I can tell you at least one of them is wrong, started with a different premise, or got mixed up with his definition. Basically, both person are talking about two different things.

If they want to communicate, they will eventually have to use the exact same language, and will come to the same conclusion.

There is a difference between being rational and rationalizing, humans are not rational, they are rationalizing, and two people can come to the same conclusion from incredibly different set of rationalities.

Ok, first of all, what does "preservering a language" mean for you? Are you talking about keeping archives on that particular language, or make laws to prevent a group from being assimilated by another?

If the language is dead, no one use it anymore, and no one need to understand the meaning of this particular idiom. Useful information is filtered and passed down to the next generation, and the useless part is forgotten.

To quote myself...

*insert incredibly long and boring argument about the scientific importance of preserving a language, due to the fact that our language colors the way we think, and there's a lot of scientific advancements in cognitive science that are in jeopardy due to thousands of languages dying off*

Of course all us linguists need is a codex, once we have compiled that...we don't need anyone who actually speaks it anymore.

Unless he was a fucking hermit who lived in the middle of nowhere, no, it's not "lost". The useful information was probably transmitted to person close to him.

This is...well there's no nice way to say it, it's blissfully ignorant. We've made a lot of discoveries about the brain from people who were the last speaker(or a tiny handful, in australia and mexico there is a lot of these) of their particular language, and it died with them. I can't even fathom the knowledge we've already lost from the deaths of those we have no knowledge of. Since the *VAST* majority of languages in the world have *NO* written language(orthography), when those people die, all record of it's existence goes with them, or at best lasts one more generation longer of people who simply knew "those guys" spoke something different. That's how we proved Math was not a universal concept, because we found a almost dead family of languages in South America that had no concepts for math.

I don't understand the point of collecting language. It's the same as someone who own a scrapyard because he isn't able to throw away a single thing. Not everything is useful, and not everything deserve to be preserved.

Funny example since I own a scrapyard(passed down family business). Last I checked it was an incredibly profitable business that relies on people throwing out very valuable things or selling them for practically nothing to people who have the ability to reclaim the value from them.

[Oulanbator]

Taking pride in a language is fucking retarded. It's just a fancy tool to communicate, and most 5 years old can do it pretty well.

That's situational. It's quite easy to speak your native language, and there is indeed no pride to take in speaking it.
However, the guy I was answering to learnt French as a second ( or third) language. I can tell it because I'm French and because he made mistakes no native French speaker would do.
He is proud because he learnt this language and he's happy when he gets a chance to speak it, just like I'm happy when I get a chance to speak English, because that's something I enjoy.
There is nothing wrong with this.

Trying to protect a language is also stupid. just let it evolve like everything else. I'm sure latin was doing the job back then, but various circumstance made it disappears. If French is bound to dissappears, so be it.

I tend to agree with this. Spoken languages are bound to evolve, it's a good thing. I'm ok with using new words from other languages, because sometimes they are just more efficient at expressing what we want, or maybe just more trendy.
Tho i dun lik when langagz evolvz in wird lazy fonétik waiz lik we C mor n' mor. Rules and grammar are somehow important to help everyone understand each others.

French is not bound to disappear. It's the 6th more spoken language in the world.
Imo, English have more chances to disappear. English is the 4th more spoken language in the world, but at least half of the English speakers speak English as a secondary language.
Economics, globalization, rise of new countries etc... can change the deal. Who knows what languages my kids will learn in 15 years ? It may not be English. I just want them to learn the language that will allow them to speak with as much people as possible.

Seriously, I would like to see a rational explanation from people who believes it's a good thing to preserve a language?

Let's admit you can only speak English. Let's admit you aren't able at all to learn how to speak Chinese. Then imagine all the tv channels speaking in Chinese, all the newspapers written in Chinese, all the internet in chinese, all the computers, cell phones, gadgets in chinese, all the video games in Chinese etc etc...
Imagine BG discussions in Chinese.

You could be fucking lost. You could scream "fucking Chinese invading all my life", you could feel excluded from the rest of the world, unable to talk with others. You would try to find and buy things that would be accessible to you: translated in English.
You wouldn't want your only way to communicate with other people to disappear, you would want to preserve English at any cost.

Man, 80% of my irl friends wouldn't be able to chat with us on BG, because they can't understand English. Are they lazy ? Are they stupid ? No.
Some people are just more comfortable than others at learning foreign languages.
You have to respect these people, especially if you were lucky enough to be born in a place where the universal language of the world is natively spoken. Who knows, maybe you wouldn't have been able to learn English if you were born in Quebec.

[Kaylia]

There is a difference between being rational and rationalizing, humans are not rational, they are rationalizing, and two people can come to the same conclusion from incredibly different set of rationalities.

Ok... can you give me a factual example? I've no clue what you mean with this.

This is...well there's no nice way to say it, it's blissfully ignorant. We've made a lot of discoveries about the brain from people who were the last speaker(or a tiny handful, in australia and mexico there is a lot of these) of their particular language, and it died with them. I can't even fathom the knowledge we've already lost from the deaths of those we have no knowledge of. Since the *VAST* majority of languages in the world have *NO* written language(orthography), when those people die, all record of it's existence goes with them, or at best lasts one more generation longer of people who simply knew "those guys" spoke something different. That's how we proved Math was not a universal concept, because we found a almost dead family of languages in South America that had no concepts for math.

Just post the articles instead. It will save you the trouble of writting it, and will be a lot more credible.

And what make those people unique is not their language, but the fact that they had little interaction with the rest of the world. Sure, their language is unique as a consequence, but don't pretend it's what make them important.

Funny example since I own a scrapyard(passed down family business). Last I checked it was an incredibly profitable business that relies on people throwing out very valuable things or selling them for practically nothing to people who have the ability to reclaim the value from them.

Funny indeed, because you're doing exactly what I said people were doing. Keeping what is valuable and tossing the rest away.

Mindlessly keeping everything is not profitable, efficient, or useful.

[Kaylia]

That's situational. It's quite easy to speak your native language, and there is indeed no pride to take in speaking it.
However, the guy I was answering to learnt French as a second ( or third) language. I can tell it because I'm French and because he made mistakes no native French speaker would do.
He is proud because he learnt this language and he's happy when he gets a chance to speak it, just like I'm happy when I get a chance to speak English, because that's something I enjoy.
There is nothing wrong with this.

Sorry, I didn't know you were refering to another post.

I agree with you on this. Being proud to learn something is normal...actually, it's a good thing. I was strictly talking about the pride people take in their country and language

I tend to agree with this. Spoken languages are bound to evolve, it's a good thing. I'm ok with using new words from other languages, because sometimes they are just more efficient at expressing what we want, or maybe just more trendy.
Tho i dun lik when langagz evolvz in wird lazy fonétik waiz lik we C mor n' mor. Rules and grammar are somehow important to help everyone understand each others.

French is not bound to disappear. It's the 6th more spoken language in the world.
Imo, English have more chances to disappear. English is the 4th more spoken language in the world, but at least half of the English speakers speak English as a secondary language.
Economics, globalization, rise of new countries etc... can change the deal. Who knows what languages my kids will learn in 15 years ? It may not be English. I just want them to learn the language that will allow them to speak with as much people as possible.

I agree with most of this again. It's true you need an "official grammar" to make communication easier, but you can't go against the way people are using the language. It's not people who need to learn the "official language", but the "official language" that need to be adapted to what people are using.

However, I think french in québec is bound to dissapears unless they maintain it alive artificially through stupid laws. French itself will last a while, but it's not like it's the same french that is used everywhere.

I have no clue which language is going to dissapears first, but it's always linked to the socio-economic/cultura/political factor. The only thing I know for sure is that in 5000 years, there is a good chance it won't sound anything like the language we use now.

et's admit you can only speak English. Let's admit you aren't able at all to learn how to speak Chinese. Then imagine all the tv channels speaking in Chinese, all the newspapers written in Chinese, all the internet in chinese, all the computers, cell phones, gadgets in chinese, all the video games in Chinese etc etc...
Imagine BG discussions in Chinese.

You could be fucking lost. You could scream "fucking Chinese invading all my life", you could feel excluded from the rest of the world, unable to talk with others. You would try to find and buy things that would be accessible to you: translated in English.
You wouldn't want your only way to communicate with other people to disappear, you would want to preserve English at any cost.

Man, 80% of my irl friends wouldn't be able to chat with us on BG, because they can't understand English. Are they lazy ? Are they stupid ? No.
Some people are just more comfortable than others at learning foreign languages.
You have to respect these people, especially if you were lucky enough to be born in a place where the universal language of the world is natively spoken. Who knows, maybe you wouldn't have been able to learn English if you were born in Quebec.

Most people don't push their reasoning that far sadly. Calling it a reasoning is forcing it...they just go with how they feel, and it's usually close to racism.

I can understand the feeling, but the situation you mentioned can't possibly happen suddently. It will always be much slower. Actually, it's not people who change, but a new generation who will learn to use both language. Kinda like what happened in Louisiana with french

And well, I was born in québec, and french is the only language I ever spoke. >_> I learned english to understand rpg. Hell, the first english word I learned were "fight, magic, item, fire, ice and lit" when I was around 10 years old.

[Oulanbator]

Well things can change faster than you can expect.
I look at my Dad, he's 58, he never had an English lesson at school. He's a dentist, he's fond of his job and really loves all the new dentistry stuff that is released every day, he loves to keep up to date with innovation and shit, to read information about his job and new methods etc...
For about 30 years, he was able to do this in French though magazines, conventions etc..
During the last 5 years, he had to move to internet to find valuable information, and this information is in English. He had to start learning English, he's trying very hard for 5 years now, taking lessons, testing dvd methods etc etc... and still his English is really poor, and he can't read and talk as much as he wishes.
He's unable to watch an episode of Desperate Housewives in English.

Things can change faster than we expect, and we can easily be left aside from these changes. So what if Chinese were the universal language in 30 years ? Are we ready to take the train ? Are we already too late ? Will we be able to catch up in 10 years.

I learnt English through video games like you ( and music and other crap), and I also think it's sad to translate everything, because every opportunity to get familiar with foreign languages will benefit to a lot of people.
In 1995, France set laws to force radios to broadcast at least 50% of French songs. I remember we kids hated it because we wanted to listen to Nirvana and the Cranberries, and not to some shitty french songs.
Now France is one of the biggest music producers in the world, and our radios aren't flooded with all the shitty english music like it's the case in Holland. We just get the best out of both worlds: the good english music and the good french music and both live together nicely

What I mean is it doesn't have to be a radical choice between French and English ( or other languages). I think it's possible to give most people the opportunity to communicate with as much people as possible without forgetting their roots.
Some people will take the chance, some won't be able to, and others will reject it for some silly reasons.
Forcing them is like forcing people to vote for the right guy during elections... doesn't make sense. There are tons of idiots in the world, and we have to deal with them, and when they think Bush should be president or when they think video games should be translated, there is no options but to eat it and deal with it :/

[Skjie]

The problem that a lot of Canadians outside Quebec see with language laws isn't that Quebequois are interested in protecting the culture, it's the methods they use to do it. It is the continual rejection of "Canada" and "English" specifically because it is viewed as a threat.

I am speaking of the leaders in Quebec, not the average joe.