Endgame Rewards and Situational Gear

[Alvinho]

I wasn't sure how to title the thread, but that's the best I could come up with. Developed into somewhat of a long read, so please be patient. I hope someone from SE reads this.

Anyway, a few weeks after ACP, I barely even remember I finished it. Being that the options I had as my final rewards were less than amazing (see sig for jobs), I ended up picking omething for SMN, the job I get to play the least, and it got me thinking about how much gear each of us probably have, that we barely ever get to use.

I mean, shit is situational, but how often do these situations arise? Every update we get, at least 20-40 different pieces of gear are added to the already humongous roster we have. It could roughly translate to 1-2 new pieces of gear per job, some being multi-job. Considering that the majority of the endgame population has more than one 75 job, we're looking at a potential 5-10 (rough guesstimate) new pieces to be acquired.

I guess someone can raise up the "welcome to MMOs" flag. This being my first MMO - unless you count SURP - I'm not really sure what goes on in other games.

Now that mog satchels are available for a small security upgrade money, it has become easier for us to spend more time online, collectively striving for the same items as our companions, and store them upon receipt, giving life to the cycle once again. Very annoying (to me at least).

Shifting my point a bit, we know SE is capable of adding on to our stats (merits system), so what if instead of giving us new situational (doesn't apply to all expansion items) pixels at the end of every expansion (or at least these lame add-ons), they started to gives us... stats? I guess the amount could be debated, but I would be much happier with something like say, 50 MP, that can be usable by all my jobs, all the time, or 5 lolINT, with the same conditions.

IMO, having stats grafted onto our characters would not only be awesome, but would also be a greatly welcomed idea. Of course, it might be broken in some cases, and as such, these same stats could be scaled depending on job levels, a la merits. At 75, however, it would barely make a noticeable difference in most cases, and I'm sure many players would be happy to have greater e-peen numbers from added STR, higher accuracy/crit rate from added DEX, more potent slow/paralyze from extra MND, etc.

The beauty of it, of course, is that much like merits, these bonuses would be usable by/on any of your jobs, so if say, you chose 50 MP as your bonus, you would have 50 MP on a job that doesn't use any, like Samurai, for example. I'm sure this would be welcomed by Elvaan, Galkas, or really anyone that uses MP on their jobs (like me).

tl;dr version: Would you be happier with the game, or at least feel more satisfied as a customer, if instead of adding situational gear as rewards for expansions/add-ons, SE added a predetermined amount of a stat of your choice to your character instead?

[byte]

Every update we get, at least 20-40 different pieces of gear are added to the already humongous roster we have.

If only.

IMO, having stats grafted onto our characters would not only be awesome, but would also be a greatly welcomed idea. Of course, it might be broken in some cases, and as such, these same stats could be scaled depending on job levels, a la merits. At 75, however, it would barely make a noticeable difference in most cases, and I'm sure many players would be happy to have greater e-peen numbers from added STR, higher accuracy/crit rate from added DEX, more potent slow/paralyze from extra MND, etc.

The beauty of it, of course, is that much like merits, these bonuses would be usable by/on any of your jobs, so if say, you chose 50 MP as your bonus, you would have 50 MP on a job that doesn't use any, like Samurai, for example. I'm sure this would be welcomed by Elvaan, Galkas, or really anyone that uses MP on their jobs (like me).

tl;dr version: Would you be happier with the game, or at least feel more satisfied as a customer, if instead of adding situational gear as rewards for expansions/add-ons, SE added a predetermined amount of a stat of your choice to your character instead?

What you proposed is exactly like merit points. I don't see why you didn't just say, I wish SE expanded merits instead of making this tl;dr post.

Merit Points are a great idea and yes, SE is stupid for not expanding them because they are effortless for them to add and provide a pretty large timesink. eg. It would certainly take more time for me to fully merit a combat skill to 8/8 for my warrior but it provides far more of an increase than anything WAR could obtain from ACP bodies.

[vagus]

The update that came along with it has revealed some interesting things like augmented items and ANNM's. ACP however as an expansion has been failure in my eyes. Little story line, a few items and very little challenges. $9.99 for a body piece is what it comes down to in my eyes.

[Plow]

You'll just fill the space right back up with gear for another job.

[Silenka]

Of course, [stat grafting] might be broken in some cases, and as such, these same stats could be scaled depending on job levels, a la merits. At 75, however, it would barely make a noticeable difference in most cases

If it would barely make a noticeable difference then why would SE bother?

There is a ton of completely useless gear in this game, I agree. The fact that it's there and people can choose to use it over actually useful gear is more of a problem in my opinion.

[Jakson]

If it would barely make a noticeable difference then why would SE bother?

There is a ton of completely useless gear in this game, I agree. The fact that it's there and people can choose to use it over actually useful gear is more of a problem in my opinion.

Yes, but it reminds me of a t-shirt I've seen: Blessed are the losers, for they determine the winners. If all the players equipped correctly, what fun would there be in getting the cool stuff or at least the Gimp/Confused/WTF threads?

[Spira]

I sincerely believe that as far as equipment options is concerned, we're at the biggest turning point in FFXI's history.

Equipment in FFXI has always been pretty straightforward.. but the developers have been trying to keep things refresing, firstly by introducing all new types of stats to gear (eg. magic accuracy), or stats that previously existed only as job traits (double attack) to promote job and plurality.

To ensure that gear choices weren't absolute, they made provisions for situationally good gear, like stuff that specifically offer bonuses against a mob type, or latent and hidden effects. But all this was easy to figure out (most of the time) and it got old fast. Some people didnt see the benefits of conditional gear, or anything that wasn't worth putting on all the time...

During the CoP era, they tried to toss things up by introducing enchantment and dispensing equipment. These were pretty interesting additions, many of which are used to this day and make life easier in the game.. (eg. Warp Cudgel) but the main benefits of these new eq types are utility. Other than a select few pieces, these eq were not used for actual battle tactics.

ToAU introduced set armor effects. But it was the rigid kind, which requires for all pieces in the set to be equipped before any bonus is given. All this while, new forms of equipment based on earlier introduced mechanics are appearing as well.

WotG introduced cumulative set effects, which allowed for set armor pieces to have bonuses even if you only use 2 pieces in that set. By this time, the equipment system has turned pretty stale. This is compounded by the fact that FFXI is a game that chooses to expand laterally - we don't necessarily see new equipment surpassing the old anymore. As such, new gear are often viewed as situational at best, and redundant at worst.. And there is still the issue of all the useless statless stock gear that have been with the game all these years...

I'm going to go out on a limb to say that FFXI is in a new expansion era, that being the 'add on era', since going by the old expansion release schedule, the next expansion was supposed to have been released with the latest version update. True to the trend, it introduced a mechanic in equipment systems.. (all the older 'new mechanics' were introduced at the start of the expansion, at least from CoP onward. dont have personal experience with zilart)

Augmentation seems to be a compromise. It seems to be SE's newest means to kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

1stly, to meet the demand for new equipment, not with new equipment per se, but equipment with new stats.

2ndly, to accomodate the ageing FFXI. Developers are hardpressed to control the number of new equipment models they add, and I suppose data entries for new equipment. With Augments, they can reuse old models and save on space for individual equipment (im guessing using the new coding they've got for augments).

3rdly, to bring stock equipment back into relevance, and possibly lower level crafts as well, provided that low level equipment can be well augmented.

Already at the very first introduction of Augments, we have seen 4 different ways in which they are being introduced to the game.

1stly through FoV Field Parchment fights, 2ndly through ACP and likely future add-on reward keys, 3rdly throough ANNMs and finally the "super-augment" final rewards that allow you to specifically customize what you want.

One big difference with the augment system is that it allows for multiple possibilities on the players end, and another big difference is that most conventional means of acquiring new equipment is no longer the way these augmented pieces will be acquired.

SE appears to have been very cautious with the amount of freedom it gives players in customizing gear, and the level of variance that augments can give. As one will notice, each system has a different degree of randomness of stats. FoV, which offers the widest range of stuff you could possibly augment, offers absolutely no form of obvious control over what you customize.
ANNM, at the other end of the spectrum, only deals with 6 specific augment options over each of the 30 pieces of equipment, but actually pushes the boundary of equipment options with high stat augments and unique stats.

Although there is still room for specific new equipment pieces, with new equipment models and stats (which I believe will come soon as well) I believe that Augments could pave the way for a new era of end-game epeen equipment, but it would depend very much on how SE takes augments to the next stage. Certainly, it will be rolling out more equipment with augments in future version updates.
Here are 2 ways I believe they could take it.

1) Similar to the ANNM system, they introduce some new battle system that gives augmented equipment rewards.. but pick from a different pool of 'stock gear' and augment with another range of options. In other words, design more equipment with preset augments. Whilst some of the combinations here are great, I think players would prefer more customization, which leads to number 2.

2) Introduce a new (usually endgame) system which includes the NPC infrastructure to allow players to specifically customize stock equipment past lv50. This doesn't have to be overpowering if they can control what gets augmented to begin with. As an example, say there is 1 new NPC that augments equipment with specifically what you want, but if you want to add STR, you're going to need to first trade him with a "STR chip", that is a controlled low chance drop off a new popped NM or something. And it wouldn't matter if the actual stat value added can vary. I think players would be content at this point in being able to single out the stat they want to add at all.

Either way, it would be progression on SEs part as they're more familiar with the system themselves, and the way players are reacing to it.

So really, time will tell how the augment system will change the way gear is introduced, endgame rewards are acquired and gear becomes situation. I am absolutely thrilled just knowing that there will be more forms of augmenting systems / gear coming up in future version updates.



TL; DR

I think augments will revolutionize gear and the way endgame rewards are structured.

[seiji]

I like the idea of merit reward from quest/mission more difficult (and less stupidly boring) than bashing colibries for hour but with stats/trait you cant get from existing merit

gogo augmentNPC ( with "TPbonus chip")

[Starr]

Use merits to talk to a npc to add stats to gear, DA+1-3% 10 merits each!

[miokomioko]

Reward ideas I like aside from the typical non-full-time equipment:

1) 'Ex' Magic Scrolls (e.g. klimaform-style reward, more generally black or white for appropriate black/white magic jobs)
2) Universally useful Job Abilities (e.g. a short-duration Terror Spikes or something that anyone could make some use of)
3) Universally useful Job Traits (e.g. flawless ribbon-esque "resist-everything" +1 or "everything killer" +1)

Also, forever and ever fuck mission-end rewards you have to pick one of and are never able to go back and re-complete to collect them all. I would repeat CoP and all it's pre-patched gnarlyness if I could collect all 3 rings at once, likewise with ToAU rings, likewise with ACP bodies, Divine Might earrings, Apocolypse Nigh, et cetera. Why, in a game that flaunts its versatility in job choices/changing, do they get off on making us pick only one of some big items that only says TANK or MAGE or MELEE on it...

[Septimus]

Also, forever and ever fuck mission-end rewards you have to pick one of and are never able to go back and re-complete to collect them all. I would repeat CoP and all it's pre-patched gnarlyness if I could collect all 3 rings at once, likewise with ToAU rings, likewise with ACP bodies, Divine Might earrings, Apocolypse Nigh, et cetera. Why, in a game that flaunts its versatility in job choices/changing, do they get off on making us pick only one of some big items that only says TANK or MAGE or MELEE on it...

My greatest hope out of Wings of the Goddess is that after the expansion is completed there is an Apocalypse Night-style quest that ties in ToAU and WotG (Odin, represent), then another that ties in all four major expansion. Once you beat the grand storyline, you get to pick a second CoP ring for a reward. I know that is fantastically optimistic, but if you make the quests hard enough (and require completing Waking the Beast for added insanity since the story would probably be avatar-centric) it would be pretty much the greatest reward ever.

[Spira]

im still waiting for a quest that gives something great that requires waking the beast as a prerequisite..

it'd be a big pat on the back for people who were commited enough to do it..
and also eventually get more people to do it

[spooky]

I don't bother getting / using gear that offers a minimal gain. This saves me lots of space, time and money. People should stop caring about doing omgextra10moredmg and play for fun.
I think the main reason they only let you choose one reward is to create people spacialising in something they love instead of being amazing at everything.

[Acturus]

im still waiting for a quest that gives something great that requires waking the beast as a prerequisite..

it'd be a big pat on the back for people who were commited enough to do it..
and also eventually get more people to do it

I'm still clear for Carbuncle Prime, but haven't fought him yet. Q_Q

[Izzy]

I don't bother getting / using gear that offers a minimal gain. This saves me lots of space, time and money. People should stop caring about doing omgextra10moredmg and play for fun.
I think the main reason they only let you choose one reward is to create people spacialising in something they love instead of being amazing at everything.

I don't think this forum is for you.

If you're not trying to do your best, what's the fucking point?

[Khalil]

I don't think this forum is for you.

If you're not trying to do your best, what's the fucking point?

There are two types of people; People who play for fun and those who play to win. The gentleman you quoted falls in the former category. But, keep in mind, this is a game and it's normally meant to have fun. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Izzy]

There are two types of people; People who play for fun and those who play to win.

Last I checked, losing is not fun. The "casual gaming" excuse is always a bullshit excuse used by lazy people who don't want to put the extra effort into actually being good.

[ronin sparthos]

On one hand id like to see the current augment system improved upon but the system really needs to accommodate some non-random way of customizing gear. I really dont know whats with SEs unhealthy addiction to randomness in every aspect of the game but this is a simple way to "fix" the imbalance of gear drops at the endgame. (Anyone ever wonder why no good R/EX Bows or Xbows come from the endgame?)

Give players a system of items to collect in order to augment items and add them to HNMs/NMs for the "better" augments. Normal monsters can drop the items for weaker augments. This way they can retcon HNMs like Vrtra, Jorm, Hydra, add components for augments to current popular HNMs and at the same time stop alot of the complaining that people have regarding certain jobs being shafted at endgame events.

Even if it was something simple like adding elemental effects to weapons as a start (like a level 50ish augment) with better augments as you hit the endgame. (crits+%, stats+ etc)

Most importantly, SE needs to up the difficulty on future NMs/HNMs if they intend to keep making the players even more powerful. All the patches to "improve" jobs goes for naught if the challenge level does not change. There has to be a way to make monsters harder without approaching the AV/PW tier and thus justify the player buffs.

[Acturus]

There are two types of people; People who play for fun and those who play to win. The gentleman you quoted falls in the former category. But, keep in mind, this is a game and it's normally meant to have fun. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

But the two are not mutually exclusive.

Everyone plays "to have fun". That sort of defines a recreational activity.

I think what Izzy meant was that BG is here for those folks that min/max, strive for the +1s, try to be first to find this or break that, and stay at the front of the pack.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be at that level of play, but there is something slightly askew at coming to the forum where those players are most prevalent and saying "meh y'all".

[Khalil]

But the two are not mutually exclusive.

Everyone plays "to have fun". That sort of defines a recreational activity.

I think what Izzy meant was that BG is here for those folks that min/max, strive for the +1s, try to be first to find this or break that, and stay at the front of the pack.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be at that level of play, but there is something slightly askew at coming to the forum where those players are most prevalent and saying "meh y'all".

You'd been surprised how many people actually hate Kings and spent a good portion of their FFXI career in a HNMLS. Maybe I don't understand what that gentlemen meant but there are casual players who don't mind being the best, just like to hang out and have fun in their own way.