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[Tarmo]

I was just showing him that I had a Rapparee Harness set. Thank you for your very helpful post though.

[Tarmo]

double post sorry.

[Starr]

Not Forager's in low evasion/nyzul/salvage/sushi/pizza build? Also maybe Rajas?

[Gunitsoldier]

Wasn't trying to be rude, just found it funny.

[Cream Soda]

Shouldnt you tp on those 2 Sniper's +1 instead of Sniper's+1 & Rajas? I am no monk, but I thought you wouldnt really benefit much from the store tp, and the 5 str and dex werent as good as +7 acc, might be wrong.

Also, have you got a Cuch. Mantle for when the situations call for it? (Pretty sure you will not cap your hit rate on many mobs).

Non the less, awesome monk there, good job!

My build has SLIGHTLY more acc than his (swap out merman for minuet earring from my avatar pic) and I have 85% acc on 82 colibri and capped acc with focus up. With focus up I swap out usu mask for turban and usu gloves for bkote and still keep my x2 toreador's rings on, but with full usu, I'd change that to just swapping ou acc accessories (cuch to forager's, minuet to merman/fenrir, tor to rajas)

[pchan]

You don't have full usu though, so -6 store tp and 8 store tp total. The store tp tiers (for which you save, on average, 1 punch on your way to 100% TPs) are stp 3,9,15,23. Every time you break a tier it's, on avergage, 1 punch saved so a bit less than 1/2 round ( 0.44 rounds since on average you get 2.25 hit/round with /nin and brutal). Now how does saving 0.44 round increase your dot ? At 90-95% acc you need ~8 rounds after asuran to reach 100 tps, assuming, say, 14 store tps (full usu + brutal). For simplicity il assume that you keep same acc& att during ws, that you gain 14 dmg from str & vit mod, and punch with 58 dmg (5 fstr) :

dps @ 14 stp : (8 rounds/asuran fists)=8*2.25*58+8*72 during 8 rounds of 348 delay=34.91 dps
dps @ 15 stp : (7.56 rounds/asuranfist)=8*2.25*58+8*72 during 7.56 rounds of 348 delay=35.63

So that's a +2% increase in dps. Of course raja gives also 5 str (+1 fstr) and 2-3 attack as well as 2-3 acc. +1 dmg is like 1.5% increase, 2 accuracy is 1% ish so that's a minimum of 4% which beats toreadors.

[Cream Soda]

Prob with stp builds on 2hand/dual wield is that even if he saves him a punch, a bunch of factors can still trap him into taking the same number of attack rounds and I'm not talking about 90-95% acc, I'm talking in the 80's like for example, how I said my build gives 85% on greater colibri lv 82.

For example lets say and I'm just picking a random number here that you need to land 17 hits to get enough tp to ws and Rajas brings you to 16. Now you've done 14 punches and have one more attack round coming up. You miss one punch and land one punch, now you've done 15 hits. Still have to wait till the next attack round so took the same amount of time anyways. Or we can say you're at 14 punches and do 2 punches and a kick still the same number of attack rounds. Or 2 punches and a DA proc from brutal, same thing. an X-hit is not anywhere even close to as solid on dual wield/h2h as it is on 2handers. All you need is an odd number of landed hits (whether you miss or da or kick) to screw it up and take that benefit away.

[Starr]

Interesting, seeing as I'm probably only gonna use my MNK for Salvage I'll just use Rajas + Ulz unless I get an Imperial Ring.

[Cream Soda]

And besides, whenever I find myself at 89 tp and the next round, provided I land both hits, would put me at 99 tp, I macro in my rajas and get 11 instead of 10 for that next round.

[pchan]

Prob with stp builds on 2hand/dual wield is that even if he saves him a punch, a bunch of factors can still trap him into taking the same number of attack rounds and I'm not talking about 90-95% acc, I'm talking in the 80's like for example, how I said my build gives 85% on greater colibri lv 82.

For example lets say and I'm just picking a random number here that you need to land 17 hits to get enough tp to ws and Rajas brings you to 16. Now you've done 14 punches and have one more attack round coming up. You miss one punch and land one punch, now you've done 15 hits. Still have to wait till the next attack round so took the same amount of time anyways. Or we can say you're at 14 punches and do 2 punches and a kick still the same number of attack rounds. Or 2 punches and a DA proc from brutal, same thing. an X-hit is not anywhere even close to as solid on dual wield/h2h as it is on 2handers. All you need is an odd number of landed hits (whether you miss or da or kick) to screw it up and take that benefit away.

Doing the maths with the "average" tp return of asuran fists and the "average" #hit you need to get 100+ tp is just a way to explain what actually happen as it's not possible to do the "real" math unless you generate random numbers with a computer for accuracy/double attack/kick attack. I did it and it corresponds well, here are the actual values for the # of "real rounds" needed

Spoiler: show

95% acc | stp8= 8.3 rounds stp9= 7.8 rounds stp14=7.8 rounds stp15=7.5 rounds
90% acc | stp8= 8.6 rounds stp9= 8.1 rounds stp14=8.1 rounds stp15=7.7 rounds
85% acc | stp8= 8.9 rounds stp9= 8.5 rounds stp14=8.4 rounds stp15=8.1 rounds
80% acc | stp8= 9.2 rounds stp9= 8.7 rounds stp14=8.7 rounds stp15=8.4 rounds
75% acc | stp8= 9.9 rounds stp9= 9.4 rounds stp14=9.2 rounds stp15=9.1 rounds stp16=9.2rounds stp17=8.8 rounds

done with a 349 delay weapon, 5% double attack 15% kick attacks

[Afrohatch]

TP - earring is a Hollow earring~
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/Nicblue/tp1.jpg

WS -
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/Nicblue/ws1.jpg

Chakra -
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../chakra4-2.jpg

Missing Eta Earring..I wonder if it exists.

what the fuck man, this is an atrocity...

[mdkuser]

tbh Im more concerned on the lack of accuracy during asuran fist (ok he alsready has a good accuracy gear) . His gear caps on lv 82 birds but nowhere close to it on MMJ ( im gussing he is at 405 acc dugring ws, need 420-430 on non thf mmj >.> depending on level). I'd really use cuchulains and Pcc on those.

@vegetto. I don't why you melee in usu head w/o full set, especially at lolibris >.>. For 3 str 7 acc to be worth trading for 2 haste, you need to be below 80% acc... with turban, augm. mirke, 2 torreador, pcc tiphia sting, minuet earring, destroyer, usu glvoes feet, byakko's, cuchu, you're close to 90%.

[Cream Soda]

I don't have cuchu mantle yet but even if I did, I don't see how I'd be at 90%. Considering I'm at 85% now -7 from usu +7 from cuchu and -3 from tathlum(the 1 dex made an acc point since brought me from odd to even) to tiphia + 3 from pcc, I'd break even with my current build, which is 85% acc

Edit: hmm forgot I just added Mirke so dex now odd again only -2 from tathlum but only +1 from mirke so about 86% 1% higher than my orig build

Edit again: Pulled up some usu head vs turban maths I did a while ago, correct me if I'm incorrect

Spoiler: show

Somen (22% haste march haste)
348
48% haste
180.96


Turban (24% haste march haste)
348
50% haste
174

180.96 x 100 attack rounds = 18096 (301.6s)

174 x 104 attack rounds = 18090 (301.6s)


200 (83.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 167 landed hits
208 (80%) x 77.4 -----------> 166.4 landed hits

200 (95%) x 77.4 -----------> 190 landed hits
208 (91.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 190.32 landed hits

200 (73.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 147 landed hits
208 (70%) x 77.4 -----------> 145.6 landed hits

Which was pretty much when i decided to somen unless w/ double march or 90%+ acc prior to adding somen

[Insoluble]

what the fuck man, this is an atrocity...

So many gimps on this forum =(

[Aratz]

lawl.

[mdkuser]

I don't have cuchu mantle yet but even if I did, I don't see how I'd be at 90%. Considering I'm at 85% now -7 from usu +7 from cuchu and -3 from tathlum(the 1 dex made an acc point since brought me from odd to even) to tiphia + 3 from pcc, I'd break even with my current build, which is 85% acc

Edit: hmm forgot I just added Mirke so dex now odd again only -2 from tathlum but only +1 from mirke so about 86% 1% higher than my orig build

Edit again: Pulled up some usu head vs turban maths I did a while ago, correct me if I'm incorrect

Spoiler: show

Somen (22% haste march haste)
348
48% haste
180.96


Turban (24% haste march haste)
348
50% haste
174

180.96 x 100 attack rounds = 18096 (301.6s)

174 x 104 attack rounds = 18090 (301.6s)


200 (83.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 167 landed hits
208 (80%) x 77.4 -----------> 166.4 landed hits

200 (95%) x 77.4 -----------> 190 landed hits
208 (91.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 190.32 landed hits

200 (73.5%) x 77.4 ---------> 147 landed hits
208 (70%) x 77.4 -----------> 145.6 landed hits

Which was pretty much when i decided to somen unless w/ double march or 90%+ acc prior to adding somen

hmm let me do a reasonning like for the torreador vs 1% hast ring earlier. Now its 7 acc vs 2% haste though.


N1= Number of hits with walhara N2= with usukane somen, N= without head gear. X= accuracy w/o head gear ( or with turban), Y= accuracy with somen ( Y= X+0.035).

N1=N*x/0.49

N2=N*y/0.51


solve N1>N2... for x>0.85 ok you wer right. but thats a point where turban and somen are equal ish.

[pchan]

hmm let me do a reasonning like for the torreador vs 1% hast ring earlier. Now its 7 acc vs 2% haste though.


N1= Number of hits with walhara N2= with usukane somen, N= without head gear. X= accuracy w/o head gear ( or with turban), Y= accuracy with somen ( Y= X+0.035).

N1=N*x/0.49

N2=N*y/0.51


solve N1>N2... for x>0.85 ok you wer right. but thats a point where turban and somen are equal ish.

If 3 str increase your base damage usukane head wins. 1 base damage is like 1.5% increase in dot.

[Cream Soda]

hmm let me do a reasonning like for the torreador vs 1% hast ring earlier. Now its 7 acc vs 2% haste though.


N1= Number of hits with walhara N2= with usukane somen, N= without head gear. X= accuracy w/o head gear ( or with turban), Y= accuracy with somen ( Y= X+0.035).

N1=N*x/0.49

N2=N*y/0.51


solve N1>N2... for x>0.85 ok you wer right. but thats a point where turban and somen are equal ish.

All the jobs that are going to be using blitz are 2handers so hasso up ect, which is why you were probably quick to assume 2 haste > 7 acc for mnk

[Raen Ryong]

2% Haste is normally worse than 7accuracy in most cases, provided none of the accuracy is wasted. The STR is just a bonus on top of that.

[Ruuz]

Even on MNK it doesn't. There seems to be an idea going around that STR does nothing for MNK, but since your D is roughly 53 (assuming 292 skill or 299, Destroyers), Forager's will add about 1.7%~ DoT damage assuming the fSTR point works. The difference to Charger's won't add that much, so it's the same rules as normal DDs. 25% of the time wins over Forager's, 75% of the time doesn't.

Chargers is not a "never wear" piece for Monk, just a rare, situational piece. The only time you can expect a Monk to have capped fSTR is in merits with full Usukane (race somewhat dependent). Elvaan will definitely have capped fSTR with STR merits and mithkabobs. Assuming you have Cuch for focus down, you will easily have capped Acc and fSTR with Focus up, so might as well use Charger. If you dont have Cuch, then you might as well full time Charger.

Also, on the sTP for MNK thing: I think gearing for it should be after everything else. There are just too many things that will change in a MNK build. If you can get some free sTP though, all power to you.