Mad Men

[Trichocyst]

More people on BG need to get their Mad Men on.

Spoiler: show

Holy shit, how many women does Don need to take care of him? He really is pathetic. And it's amazing how his desperation is just drawing every woman to want to fix the big handsome broken man. It's just a matter of time before Sally's downfall is trying to fix her broken father. He's just heading down a dark path and I can't see how it plays out. Everyone seems to fear him more than respect him at that point. He's the man with the golden touch who doesn't take care of himself. As long as the teacher from last season doesn't come back, I'm happy with the revolving door of women. It will really hold the tension taut.

And I like the way that Peggy is really confronting the changing atmosphere of perception. The misogyny was pretty palpable in her meeting, and she had the good sense to call it out, but she's still so afraid of being judged by the old fashioned man dominated industry.

I also hope Joan's husband dies in Vietnam this season. Fucker deserves it.

[Talint]

More people on BG need to get their Mad Men on.

Spoiler: show

Holy shit, how many women does Don need to take care of him? He really is pathetic. And it's amazing how his desperation is just drawing every woman to want to fix the big handsome broken man. It's just a matter of time before Sally's downfall is trying to fix her broken father. He's just heading down a dark path and I can't see how it plays out. Everyone seems to fear him more than respect him at that point. He's the man with the golden touch who doesn't take care of himself. As long as the teacher from last season doesn't come back, I'm happy with the revolving door of women. It will really hold the tension taut.

And I like the way that Peggy is really confronting the changing atmosphere of perception. The misogyny was pretty palpable in her meeting, and she had the good sense to call it out, but she's still so afraid of being judged by the old fashioned man dominated industry.

I also hope Joan's husband dies in Vietnam this season. Fucker deserves it.

Spoiler: show

There is a very interesting juxtaposition going on about Don dealing with all the women in his life right now. Clearly, he's very uncomfortable with any woman showing the slightest bit of women's lib, and for even those women he's capable of being imposing towards, outside of Peggy, he can't handle those relationships.

[Trichocyst]

Spoiler: show

There is a very interesting juxtaposition going on about Don dealing with all the women in his life right now. Clearly, he's very uncomfortable with any woman showing the slightest bit of women's lib, and for even those women he's capable of being imposing towards, outside of Peggy, he can't handle those relationships.

Spoiler: show

I know! I love the way that the changing times are beginning to expose Don's chauvinism and completely drain his charm. At the same time, there are women throwing themselves at him to try and fix him or mother him. It's crazy. There was a time when Don Draper seemed like the hippest, coolest, even though he's a complete scumbag. Not only the people in his world were taken by his alpha male attitude, but the audience was too. Everyone likes Don, but almost everyone would agree he's a jerk. It's a really interesting contrast and it makes me really enthusiastic to see his world come crashing down.

[Caiyuo]

Spoiler: show

I know! I love the way that the changing times are beginning to expose Don's chauvinism and completely drain his charm. At the same time, there are women throwing themselves at him to try and fix him or mother him. It's crazy. There was a time when Don Draper seemed like the hippest, coolest, even though he's a complete scumbag. Not only the people in his world were taken by his alpha male attitude, but the audience was too. Everyone likes Don, but almost everyone would agree he's a jerk. It's a really interesting contrast and it makes me really enthusiastic to see his world come crashing down.

Spoiler: show

Worded nicely, I hadn't ever tried to spell out what's going on and how the perception of Don is changing and thought you did so really well. I think I mentioned in a previous post, but it both sucks to see his gradual fall, yet feels deserved and so there's some satisfaction in it as well.

Not really sure if any of this merits being spoilered, but better safe than sorry.

[Trichocyst]

Thanks! I love shows that really give me the opportunity to use my film theory and screenwriting background to good use.

Spoiler: show

I think part of the satisfaction of this season so far is that we've always known that Don Draper is a bad guy, but we're finally seeing that realized. You get so swept up in his charm (and Jon Hamm plays it pitch perfect) that if you're not actively reminding yourself what horrible person he really is. The kicker is that we want to forgive Don, so it's easy for us to do so when he really does something shitty. This season we're being exposed to his downfall and we're getting, for the first time really, a chance to see him at his most flawed. Of course, this will mostly make us root for him to get it together, but it should be a great ride down.

For some reason I really feel like Breaking Bad being so good, so unpredictable, with a protagonist who is making such bad, bad, bad, bad decisions has affected the writing staff of Mad Men. I feel like Don and Walter suddenly have way more alike than they started with. Including the Shakespearean tragedy they are befalling on themselves.

[Caiyuo]

Thanks! I love shows that really give me the opportunity to use my film theory and screenwriting background to good use.

Spoiler: show

I think part of the satisfaction of this season so far is that we've always known that Don Draper is a bad guy, but we're finally seeing that realized. You get so swept up in his charm (and Jon Hamm plays it pitch perfect) that if you're not actively reminding yourself what horrible person he really is. The kicker is that we want to forgive Don, so it's easy for us to do so when he really does something shitty. This season we're being exposed to his downfall and we're getting, for the first time really, a chance to see him at his most flawed. Of course, this will mostly make us root for him to get it together, but it should be a great ride down.

For some reason I really feel like Breaking Bad being so good, so unpredictable, with a protagonist who is making such bad, bad, bad, bad decisions has affected the writing staff of Mad Men. I feel like Don and Walter suddenly have way more alike than they started with. Including the Shakespearean tragedy they are befalling on themselves.

Ah, that explains it, lol I felt similarly about the writer's commentary during the weekly marathons they were doing up until the new season's premiere, really interesting to hear him express what's going on and what he meant to convey in particular scenes.

I agree with what you're saying in regards to Don and have expressed my feelings about the ride we're on earlier in the thread and naturally it has me really wondering how far this will go; I feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg lol

For me it's hard to comparatively look at Don and Walt given I feel Walt always seemingly has things planned out 5 steps ahead of everyone else (with generally good intentions that sometimes turn bad) whereas Don just seems to not give a fuck and float along, letting the chips fall where they may and attempt to fix things after the fact because everyone gives him the opportunity, or used to. I get your point though and figure you've probably looked at this a lot more analytically than I have, these are just my thoughts on the topic that I've arrived to so far.

With that said, I see Walt as a relatively good and just person who is just at the mercy of the world and has slowly "become" his current self while Don seems like he's been in charge of the man he is all along, still satisfied with the man he's become.

More people on BG need to get their Mad Men on.

Spoiler: show

Holy shit, how many women does Don need to take care of him? He really is pathetic. And it's amazing how his desperation is just drawing every woman to want to fix the big handsome broken man. It's just a matter of time before Sally's downfall is trying to fix her broken father. He's just heading down a dark path and I can't see how it plays out. Everyone seems to fear him more than respect him at that point. He's the man with the golden touch who doesn't take care of himself. As long as the teacher from last season doesn't come back, I'm happy with the revolving door of women. It will really hold the tension taut.

And I like the way that Peggy is really confronting the changing atmosphere of perception. The misogyny was pretty palpable in her meeting, and she had the good sense to call it out, but she's still so afraid of being judged by the old fashioned man dominated industry.

I also hope Joan's husband dies in Vietnam this season. Fucker deserves it.

haha, I went back and read this and totally agree on all fronts. I find myself almost spiteful towards Joan's husband at times when he's the guy who's with what the show has made to be the perfect woman in a lot of ways while he's this bumbling "I'll get it right one of these days" fuck-up.

I also loved in a previous episode when Peggy is meeting with Don when he tells her he doesn't need her for a presentation and she retorts that he's just being spiteful and really comes down on him. You'd never think watching season 1 that she of all people would be the one keeping him in check.

[Trichocyst]

Well if you remember he's not just a bumbling gee shucks kind of guy he...

Spoiler: show

raped Joan within the boundaries of their marriage.

In fact, my girlfriend and I have been waiting a season to see him get his karma. My girlfriend is actually responsible for some of my views of the show since she's such a feminist. We both really love the show in spite of the deep rooted misogyny of it all and it fascinates me we both love a character like Don so much in spite of everything.

I think I had a really great Don/Walt comparison going, but I feel like I forgot it. Ha. Right now I feel like the big reason is the way both characters actively took control of their own destinies only to have their control start to slip. Don's decision to strike out on his own seemed like he was talking destiny by the horn, but it seems more chaotic than ever. I'm really excited to see where things go.

[Caiyuo]

Wow, I'd somehow completely forgotten about that. I'm not even sure what that says about me. lol Before you brought him up in a previous post I had actually completely forgotten about the state of their relationship and his last major decision to join up.

I sometimes forget what Don has had to go through in his origins as Don Draper and what he had to do to build himself into the man he is today because of the way he is now. He just never strikes me as a person looking at the grand scheme of things until some sort of person or event forces him into action.

[Talint]

Spoiler: show

Anne is a curious character. She doesn't have a relationship with Don Draper, as she has one with Dick Whitman. Since she's been diagnosed with cancer (and more than likely, either the last or second-to-last time Draper will ever see her), she will be out of his life soon. It'll be interesting to see how that affects him. Anne is one of the most stable, if not the most stable, women in the series.

Not to mention that the other family members of Anne know of Dick Whitman. Again, very interesting.

Also, I'm left wondering if Joan's dick of a husband actually has a job. The refusal to take her to the ER is wonderfully suspect.

Anyway, nice to see Draper drag Lane down into his own spiraling hell and showing him how to indulge himself.

[Trichocyst]

How does the True Blood thread get so much traffic but I have to dig around for this one? Tsk. Tsk. I thought tonight's episode was pretty good, but there was so much going on. I love that the changing time also includes an increasingly hip 60's soundtrack.

Spoiler: show

We (my girlfriend and I) were really glad that Don didn't sleep with Anna's niece. We were cringing as soon as Anna suggested that they stay. It was a really interesting swerve that Anna has cancer, but it is helping to redeem Don some. Interestingly, it went from redeeming him to being just another weight around his neck so fast. For a brief moment it crystallized Don's pain into focus and he understood what was really important, and missing, from his life. And just as quickly the existential reality of it all crashed down on him.

Which lead to the absurd misadventures of Don and Lane (or is it Layne?). I didn't like Lane at first, but he's really grown on me and it was about time he got more screen time with Don. The adventure they had together was a riot and the tension in the scene with the prostitute was palpable. I loved that Lane cut loose, even if it was just the night, but I can't help be intrigued by the shame he clearly had at the end of it. He's peaked into Don's world and came out with a few more gray hairs.

I'm not exactly sure what to make of Joan's story yet. Is this the first time she's revealed her abortions? The show is lampshading heavily that her relationship is on borrowed time and I still kind of resent the fact that they try to make his character likable after what he did. I still can't quite make out why she cut herself with the knife. It was some sort of cry for help, but what? Could the OBGYN visit have something to do with the rape (as much as the abortions)? There's something going on, but I can't exactly figure out what.

All in all a good episode.

[Trichocyst]

Spoiler: show

Anne is a curious character. She doesn't have a relationship with Don Draper, as she has one with Dick Whitman. Since she's been diagnosed with cancer (and more than likely, either the last or second-to-last time Draper will ever see her), she will be out of his life soon. It'll be interesting to see how that affects him. Anne is one of the most stable, if not the most stable, women in the series.

Not to mention that the other family members of Anne know of Dick Whitman. Again, very interesting.

Also, I'm left wondering if Joan's dick of a husband actually has a job. The refusal to take her to the ER is wonderfully suspect.

Anyway, nice to see Draper drag Lane down into his own spiraling hell and showing him how to indulge himself.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty sure he's actually employed, but I'm really confused by that scene as well. If the Vietnam thing is a hoax I'd be annoyed. Every time he's on screen we usually say, "Just die already." Joan was clearly trying to invoke some sort of emotional reaction, but he was missing all the signs. There was a hint of intimacy about it all, but it ultimately didn't resolve or fix anything.

It's also weird to hear Don called Dick.

[Zethren]

Spoiler: show

Anne is a curious character. She doesn't have a relationship with Don Draper, as she has one with Dick Whitman. Since she's been diagnosed with cancer (and more than likely, either the last or second-to-last time Draper will ever see her), she will be out of his life soon. It'll be interesting to see how that affects him. Anne is one of the most stable, if not the most stable, women in the series.

Not to mention that the other family members of Anne know of Dick Whitman. Again, very interesting.

Also, I'm left wondering if Joan's dick of a husband actually has a job. The refusal to take her to the ER is wonderfully suspect.

Anyway, nice to see Draper drag Lane down into his own spiraling hell and showing him how to indulge himself.

Spoiler: show

Take her to ER because she cut herself with the knife?

[Trichocyst]

Upon further inspection (and reading some discussion on the subject) it seems like...

Spoiler: show

She accidentally cut herself (looked on purpose to me) and she was afraid that her clumsy, incompetent, husband of hers would fuck it up. In that regard she would be be crying out of shock that he actually did a fine job of treating her (even showing good bedside manner). I actually forgot in the down time how bad of a surgeon Greg is. He had to join the army to gain the practical experience needed to get a job after fucking it up so badly last time. I still hate that character and want him to die.

The Mad Men thread: we only talk via spoiler.

[Rhyis.]

Spoiler: show

I swear to God, I almost cried when Don said goodbye to Anna. That scene was the definition of the old school mentality in 30 seconds.

[Talint]

Spoiler: show

Take her to ER because she cut herself with the knife?

Spoiler: show

Hey, if Christina Hendricks is screaming at you to take her to the ER, then you better damn well take her to the ER!

Spoiler: show

I swear to God, I almost cried when Don said goodbye to Anna. That scene was the definition of the old school mentality in 30 seconds.

Spoiler: show

Yeah, it's a rough scene, on many levels.

It also provides an interesting set of problems of Dick Whitman as well. She's given a passive-kind of consent for Whitman to be Draper, but she's the only proof of that. With her removed, the only people who even know the truth are Betty and Pete Campbell (at least at this point), and it becomes Whitman's word.

I wonder if this will be a problem for him as time goes on and the world continues to get just a little bit smaller.

Also, love Lane and Draper's subsequent partying on New Years Eve, going out for steaks and seeing Gamera while shitfaced.

[Caiyuo]

Upon further inspection (and reading some discussion on the subject) it seems like...

Spoiler: show

She accidentally cut herself (looked on purpose to me) and she was afraid that her clumsy, incompetent, husband of hers would fuck it up. In that regard she would be be crying out of shock that he actually did a fine job of treating her (even showing good bedside manner). I actually forgot in the down time how bad of a surgeon Greg is. He had to join the army to gain the practical experience needed to get a job after fucking it up so badly last time. I still hate that character and want him to die.

The Mad Men thread: we only talk via spoiler.

Spoiler: show

shhhh !
A thread so considerate as to not spoil, yet no one comes here for anything but post-episode exchanges (as one would expect), lol.

Got to this one really late! Anyhow, as for the episode, during the scene Joan cut her finger that's exactly what was going on in my mind. I thought now was the time she'd see how fucking awful Greg was as a surgeron when he somehow just fucks up horribly and I'm just sitting there, cringing, waiting for the fallout as he does the complete opposite.

Aside from that, really great Don episode with some welcome curve balls. I thought him standing there in his underpants painting her wall while she's lighting up was so sweet lol

[Trichocyst]

What an episode...

Spoiler: show

It's amazing how Don's flaws make him so much more relatable now that he's exposed more to the characters on the show and not just us. In some ways, this season could be the story of Don's redemption as much as anything else. Every time we think he's hit a bottom he seems to find a new dark hole to crawl into it. It happened when he seduced Allison (breaking his own rules) and then again when he found out about Anna. Now it's happened one more time with Allison confronting him about the way he's treated someone who's worked so hard for his approval. I loved the biting way he told her to write whatever she wanted and he would sign it. That's a great analogy for Don's relationships with other people. For all his ability to make a creative vision that will make you buy a product, Don often doesn't seem to understand anybody at all. Even as he tries so hard to articulate his pain, loneliness and despair. He wants so hard to make the connection, but can't. None of it was more apparent than the way he's dealt with Allison. A small footnote in his life.

Pete Campbell annoys me. When did his family life become so goddamn perfect? I love that Peggy quietly reminded him that he was already a father. I did love the way he manned up to his father in law, but he's such a shit. He's come a long way from smug snake, but that not quite far enough for him to become a strong singular character. He's still knee deep in the game. He loves the game because he's pretty good at it. He wants to be Don Draper and he's kind of on his way.

Which leads us to the other side of the pane of glass. How clear was that metaphor at the end of the episode? Peggy is interested in the counter culture (and absolutely a wannabe, "Do you know who Malcolm X is?!") and it's going to revolutionize how her work gets completed and may even make her more of an asset to SCDP than Pete. She's dipping into a culture that's just getting started in 1965 that will be a clear conflict of interest to her career or an interesting point of leverage in the changing era. If Pete wants to be Don Draper now, Peggy wants to be Don Draper who was the golden boy in season one with revolutionary concepts for a changing time.

Is she oblivious to Joyce being a lesbian even after Joyce made a pass at her? If she's not then she's a very opened minded Catholic girl in the 1960's (or maybe even a bit bi-curious).

Really interesting things on the way.

This show is so good and more people should watch it.

[Rowe]

Spoiler: show

My predictions so far

By the end of the Season Don will be engaged or Married to Phoebe, the nurse from the 2nd episode of the season. Don should hit rock bottom in about 3 more episodes and she is going to save him.

unfortunately I see a miscarriage in Trudy's future.

[Trichocyst]

Spoiler: show

Since the show hinted that he won't be single for very long I think that Don's definitely at least going to flirt with the idea, but I haven't got a clue as to who it might be. Anna? Until she dies. All of the other girls (aside from Allison and the prostitute) have only been brief flashes on the show and they've all basically mothered him. I have no idea who will stick, but they're throwing a lot of mud at the wall. Allison and Anna have definitely had the most impact.

SOMETHING has to fuck up the Campbells. I just don't know what yet. Things are going too well.

[Rowe]

John Slattery, aka Roger Sterling directed the episode. It had a very good feel to it.

All of the other girls (aside from Allison and the prostitute) have only been brief flashes on the show and they've all basically mothered him.

For Don all those woman were just a disposable fantasy. He used them as a distraction. He knew he could just drop them at any moment. They were kind of like how he sneaks out to the movies all the time. They allowed him to create an alternate fantasy life while he was with them, except Bobbie Barret. I hated her and I think Don was with her because he hates himself.