Pandemonium Warden Information

[Therin]

That's pretty epic, and it makes it doable for any LS that can field around 32 well-geared, balanced players. <_<

(18 for PW, 6 to swap in and out every form to super-tank the lamps, and another 8 or so "back-up" players to swap in and out for dead melee and BLUs to hold it just in case the plan goes bonkers.)

[Rocl]

And yes, it is as I figured: The first LS just killed the original chariot PW and he changed into another chariot and they just assumed that it was because they didnt kill the lamps

To be fair to the original LS, this could be part of same change when they changed the # of forms.

Also how hard do the lamps hit? This changed the fight 200%

[Neosutra]

Yep, fight time (able to just zerg most forms) and the number of players required just got cut by a large percentage.

Can I get a "hell ya"?

[Yabby]

Message from SE:

It has come to our attention that PW is not working as attended...

[vagus]

Yep, fight time (able to just zerg most forms) and the number of players required just got cut by a large percentage.

Can I get a "hell ya"?

GJ!! This is some interesting information. Hmm Pld/Blu to super hold with sch/drk to hold lamps? Hmmm.

[Neosutra]

I wonder if this is why some of the LSs have been so secretive about their kills lol.

[Yabby]

I really don't see the use for sch/drk for holding lamps. If you could enlighten me on that. Wouldn't sch/rdm spaming grav/bind work better for holding reasons.

[Therin]

I wouldn't even bother with that, I'd go for something like this:

PW Tank Party)
PLD/NIN, PLD/NIN, WHM/SCH, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM

PW DD Party)
RNG/SAM, RNG/SAM, RNG/SAM, BRD/WHM, COR, WHM/SCH

PW DD Party)
Either another party like that one above, or a BLM party, or a SAM/THF party, with 1 slot open for claiming lamps.

Lamp party)

PLD/WAR, PLD/WAR, WHM, WHM, BRD, SCH

The SCH can AoE Phalanx/Stoneskin and the PLDs can supertank them with the WHMs curebombing.

If you're going the full zerg route on PW forms they should go down in 2-3 minutes each, which makes holding the lamps with Gravity/Bind/whatever unnecessary, just outlast them with Cure spells. Assuming a spare tank or two, a couple spare DDs and a few BLUs to hold PW's final form like we've seen many times before, you're looking at about 28-32 people.

[Yabby]

even killing that fast, that lamp party wouldn't work. The whm's MP would last about 2 to 3 forms max before needing rest. Thus why a sch/rdm would seem better to me. If the lamps can't get to the tank, no need for curing.


Edit: Also /sam for rngs = death for them. I know the point is to zerg down PW, but that 1st WS the rng has hate. When PW hits melees for about 500+ normal hit, and double attacks more then a normal hit means you rngs will last about one round.

[Therin]

Well, that lamp party has a SCH in it and you could certainly try the Graviga/Bindga route. ;P

But I'm pretty sure you'll run into issues occasionally. I don't think PW lamps are particularly susceptible to debuffs to the point where relying completely on Graviga/Bindga is a good idea. But, I could be wrong.

[Neosutra]

I wouldn't even bother with that, I'd go for something like this:

PW Tank Party)
PLD/NIN, PLD/NIN, WHM/SCH, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM

PW DD Party)
RNG/SAM, RNG/SAM, RNG/SAM, BRD/WHM, COR, WHM/SCH

PW DD Party)
Either another party like that one above, or a BLM party, or a SAM/THF party, with 1 slot open for claiming lamps.

Lamp party)

PLD/WAR, PLD/WAR, WHM, WHM, BRD, SCH

The SCH can AoE Phalanx/Stoneskin and the PLDs can supertank them with the WHMs curebombing.

If you're going the full zerg route on PW forms they should go down in 2-3 minutes each, which makes holding the lamps with Gravity/Bind/whatever unnecessary, just outlast them with Cure spells. Assuming a spare tank or two, a couple spare DDs and a few BLUs to hold PW's final form like we've seen many times before, you're looking at about 28-32 people.

Not really Q.Q.

We arent comfirmed that lamps will just assist the target that flashed PW between phases, it is just a theory, it may be hate based in another way. So you may still need a diaga for them. Even so, how are the 2 pld/wars going to pull 8 gears off that one person that got lamp hate between phases?

And the keeping the lamps tanks alive isnt the concern, its the lamps moving back to massacre the PW alliance before that phase dies.

As for the setup: 1 whm wont keep 2 plds alive for this fight, unless you plan on having outside whms spamming.

The other parties are what we already said, with rngs rotating in and out to barrage/WS each form and storetping on adds in the area.

Plds are kind of useless for the chariot forms if you plan on just zerging them down. However they can/will play more of a role for beastmen king and ToAU kings since you cant just kill them with one volley of an alliance of melees WSing.

[Therin]

We arent comfirmed that lamps will just assist the target that flashed PW between phases, it is just a theory, it may be hate based in another way. So you may still need a diaga for them. Even so, how are the 2 pld/wars going to pull 8 gears off that one person that got lamp hate between phases?

And the keeping the lamps tanks alive isnt the concern, its the lamps moving back to massacre the PW alliance before that phase dies.

If the theory works, I was suggesting having the PLD/WARs themselves be the ones who get the initial hate on lamps. Unless I'm misunderstanding, couldn't you have one in the main alliance act on PW in its Dvergr form, and then drop before it respawns, thereby spawning the new form's lamps with hate on that PLD/WAR?

I guess that might spawn PW itself claimed to the PLD/WAR, which would fuck things up pretty royally, and there's probably not enough time to have him sit in the alliance until the alliance pulls PW itself off of him.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the theory, the lamps shouldn't "move back" to assist PW unless you run them out of range or your super-tanking PLD dies.

[Yabby]

Even if the theory worked, chances are the supertanking pld has a high chance of being killed at one point. If that happens there needs to be someone who can get hate on all the lamps.

[Neosutra]

If the theory works, I was suggesting having the PLD/WARs themselves be the ones who get the initial hate on lamps. Unless I'm misunderstanding, couldn't you have one in the main alliance act on PW in its Dvergr form, and then drop before it respawns, thereby spawning the new form's lamps with hate on that PLD/WAR?

Unless I'm misunderstanding the theory, the lamps shouldn't "move back" to assist PW unless you run them out of range or your super-tanking PLD dies.

It isnt really that simple. With zerging you wont really have time to let this pld drop (while getting beat on by 8 angry gears), get invited to the holding party , (while still getting beat on), then hold them away from the alliance, (while still getting beat on), then get invited back to the main alliance, (while still getting beat on), to flash/voke the next phase swap.

Plus, it doesnt matter what you do, eventually the gears will come back to PW. The flash between forms just lets the lamps alliance pull lamps off that pld easier, it doesnt "seal hate on that pld". Bind/gravity would help with this.

[Yugl]

Well, that lamp party has a SCH in it and you could certainly try the Graviga/Bindga route. ;P

But I'm pretty sure you'll run into issues occasionally. I don't think PW lamps are particularly susceptible to debuffs to the point where relying completely on Graviga/Bindga is a good idea. But, I could be wrong.

Even if they were, Gravityga is a VERY risky move for SCH. Even on simple mobs like Dhamels @ NE Apollyon, the duration is random and can lead to problems if gravity is not up or the effect doesn't wear off on all of them at the same time when it is up (Can't reapply Gravity like Sleep > Sleep II). If you do want this to work, you'll need to working around the following:

Gravity's Recast timer when used with Manifestation (Alacrity can help, but that's two charges). Bindga can be an alternative if Gravity's recast is a problem, but it's not a reliable spell in general. Even if you're able to Alacrity + Manifestation, the duration is random and some will have Gravity wear off before others. This means there will be times when you'll be unable to rely on Gravity.

I'm not sure how resistant they are, but it seems BLU would make a better tank/holding candidate for this:

Magnetite Cloud - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Mysterious Light - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Blastbomb - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Jettatura - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Bad Breath - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Temporal Shift - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more
Ice Break - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

[Neosutra]

I wouldnt be concerned with holding lamps in gear form, chariots MELT.

However, the lamps are very dangerous in ToAU kings form, and reasonable dangerous (with mages casting) in beastmen form. You really need to focus to keep them distracted and the lamps party alive. Blues, Schs, Pld/rdms, and good support maybe.

Nice to be talking about some new strats for this though O.O.

[Yabby]

I've only really worked with one sch i guess, But i never see him get resist on anything really lol. Nothing is cooler than rolling up into a room in ein,salvage,dynmais,limbus aggro everything just to watch our sch go to work with gravityga.

Might be good to have a pld/blm? spaming sleepga for hate to keep it off the sch's?

[Yugl]

BLU can possibly tank them as well.

List of abilities:

Diffusion (Max merits: 5min recast) + Exuviation gives as much enmity as Invincible with half of it CE and the other half VE
Actinic (AoE Flash)
Temporal Shift (Stun and AoE hate)
Zeph Mantle (4 Shadow Blink)
Cocoon
Can sub PLD or WAR
AoE Dispel for hate
Innate Fast Cast (Bad Breath and Sub-Zero Smash)
Possible intimidate set

I noticed that ramparts in Nyzul will intimidate BLU if they're wearing Koggelmander. Does this suggest that archaic machinery are *BEAST* type mobs? If so, Beast Killer Trait + Beast Slayer might net some intimidation effects.

[Neosutra]

I've only really worked with one sch i guess, But i never see him get resist on anything really lol. Nothing is cooler than rolling up into a room in ein,salvage,dynmais,limbus aggro everything just to watch our sch go to work with gravityga.

Might be good to have a pld/blm? spaming sleepga for hate to keep it off the sch's?

Just easier to cure the sch once (or diaga lamps at start) and spam JAs/cures swaps/barspells/etc. Keeping hate off the sch isnt a problem.

My only concern is keeping the lamps focused and the lamps plds alive long enough to kill the ToAU forms.

As for the blues on the gears, not a bad idea anyways if you want to keep blues for the last phase fight zombie-esque approach.

[Suiram]

Cool that somebody finally checked this (even if you thought at first that you'd forgotten to lol)

When you say the lamps depopped and then respawned, was it a regular despawn/respawn, or was it one of those momentary model-shift despawns (I don't know if you've done MMM V05 but for those that have, when the goblin changes jobs or weapons, as a good example of what I mean in the second part). In particular, did they respawn on PW, or did they respawn on the person they had been on before, if it's possible to tell from the video? Also, what was the hate situation with the two unkilled lamps after form change?