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  1. #221
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Yeah, I'm not going to run the whole thing - I'm planning on walking one minute per mile (through the mile marker/water stops). Hope to average around a 10:45 mile pace for the whole thing - trying to keep my splits as even as possible.

    People keep telling me two things: "Oh man that last 6 miles is torture you'll slow way down" and "Once you're actually there in a real race, not just running by yourself, you'll be able to run faster than you expect".

    So we'll see. It's obviously slow as fuck, but considering I had never run more than 3 miles in my life last fall, whatever.

    I pretty much said the exact same thing Zoolander, but realized that I couldn't talk shit like that unless I'd ran one myself. I was really hoping to finish in 4:22:20 (10-minute mile pace) but severe food poisoning and knee problems have fucked up my training - I can't get back on track in time since the marathon is less than 6 weeks away.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    "Once you're actually there in a real race, not just running by yourself, you'll be able to run faster than you expect".
    Like i've said i've never run a full marathon, but based on everything i've read this is most likely untrue when it comes to the marathon, for shorter distances certainly, not the marathon though. However you're doing yourself a favor with combining running and walking, and it can be just as hard to discipline yourself to start walking when you still feel good as it can to keep running when you feel like shit.

    Edit: ok thats not entirely true, yes, things will seem a little easier on race day(at the beginning), but this does have the potential to make things worse on you. Distance running is about discipline, you have a plan, and you stick to it. One of the most beneficial race strategies is pacing yourself to run negative splits, you want to run a speed you can maintain so you start out slower than you have to and increase your pace as the race goes on. it ensures that you don't run at a speed your body is incapable of maintaining for the entire distance. So if you have a plan that includes running the same pace throughout the entire race, put some thought into decreasing your pace at the beginning of the race and aiming to finish stronger than you start

  3. #223
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    I was able to keep up very consistent 9:20-9:40ish runs plus 1 minute walks for the 16 mile run - it's really not a fast pace. I'm doing all my training from here on out at this same pace/strategy. I plan on taking it to 20 miles and seeing how I feel - if I can speed up at that point I will, otherwise I'll just continue.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    I was able to keep up very consistent 9:20-9:40ish runs plus 1 minute walks for the 16 mile run - it's really not a fast pace. I'm doing all my training from here on out at this same pace/strategy. I plan on taking it to 20 miles and seeing how I feel - if I can speed up at that point I will, otherwise I'll just continue.
    This is what i'm not understanding Archi, you can obviously recognize the difficulty in training for this. You're a man in decent shape, and you've been reduced to 9-10 minute miles, I'm sure you recognize the dedication and effort that training requires, why do you insist on telling your friends who run that its no real accomplishment?

  5. #225
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    On race days, even in the marathon, you can run a faster pace at an easier perceived effort. I'm sure there's a ton of factors that contribute to that, adrenaline, mental status, etc. The reason people have a hard time with this in the marathon is because they feel good about themselves and attempt to pick up the pace and end up crashing at the end. You can typically get away with it at the shorter distances without too much repercussions. I actually pace myself 10% faster than goal pace during the first mile of 5k races and try to sustain it. If you attempted to do that in the first 1/3 of a marathon, you'd likely fall on your face at the end.

    Edit: I doubt you'll hit the wall with a run/walk strategy, really depends on your diet in the week leading to the race, but I doubt it.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumblingdrunk View Post
    As far as I'm concerned nothing proves better a person's athletic determination than running. It is sport, in its purest form.
    This quote seems to sum up the whole "runners are kindasorta jackasses" thing unless it's just being incredibly sarcastic because of what Archibald is saying.

  7. #227

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    On race days, even in the marathon, you can run a faster pace at an easier perceived effort. I'm sure there's a ton of factors that contribute to that, adrenaline, mental status, etc. The reason people have a hard time with this in the marathon is because they feel good about themselves and attempt to pick up the pace and end up crashing at the end. You can typically get away with it at the shorter distances without too much repercussions. I actually pace myself 10% faster than goal pace during the first mile of 5k races and try to sustain it. If you attempted to do that in the first 1/3 of a marathon, you'd likely fall on your face at the end.

    Edit: I doubt you'll hit the wall with a run/walk strategy, really depends on your diet in the week leading to the race, but I doubt it.
    Yea, that is why i really like 5k's lol. They are so much more enjoyable and don't destroy your body/mind nearly as much. Long enough to where you have some mind games going on and you are able to push the envelope but gotta balance it out so you don't kill yourself until the very end. Still haven't gotten up to a marathon yet, although I do want to do one sometime in the next 6 months or so. Flat feet and severe overpronation have made things a lot more difficult for really high distances than I had hoped. Finally got some really good motion control shoes though, hopefully they help a bunch. I'm tired of my shins flaring up so bad that I can't even walk back home.

    Has to be tough to start out a marathon, I remember one woman I knew was so amped up her first several miles were all around 5 minutes, which is retarded fast. That whole family was genetic freaks when it came to running though...the kids would hardly train and still run 17 minute 5ks, I mean seriously wtf.

    Edit: And yea I'm with the others in not understanding the haterade for runners. Is having douchebag runners just more common out in Cali? I could see that being the case. There has to be more runners out there too, here in the south everyone is fat so there really can't be that many runners. I always enjoyed running, and it usually helps me out a lot in things like soccer and basketball. I was never that super coordinated when it came to ball handling in either, but when I am in shape it feels great to be able to out hustle everyone on the field consistently. Plus the mind games with running is always fun. I think you need to get out in a competitive setting soon, it makes running so much more fun and really changes things.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caiyuo View Post
    This quote seems to sum up the whole "runners are kindasorta jackasses" thing unless it's just being incredibly sarcastic because of what Archibald is saying.
    I've met a ton, ton, ton of runners. Not a single one has been a jackass. Even the elites are generous with taking pictures and signing things. He's right, running is sport at it's purest form. I can't think of a single sport where running isn't a part of the training process. Some people run to train, some people train to run, but almost everyone runs. When people do something wrong, misbehave, goof off, whatever the case may be in any sport...what's their punishment? Go run a lap. Suicide drills.

    You have to be a little odd to be a distance runner. It takes an absurd amount of discipline and you have to be a bit of a sadist. Those two qualities don't typically go hand in hand, so people who possess those two qualities are typically people who are just...strange. And runners are strange. Go to the starting line of a marathon about an hour before it starts. You'll see the weirdest shit ever.

  9. #229
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    Thanks for the diet tips guys, I think its really just a matter of keeping the house stocked with what I need and planning meals ahead for days that Im busy. (I still live at home, so the parentals do the shopping most times)

    While I'm here, let me post my workout regiment and see how it compares to you guys. Just for note, I've been going with a friend of mine who is a beastly guy (big, but cut too)... so Im just following him and making changes when something isnt working for me.

    I cycle through, and usually take a set day off unless something else forces me to change it. (Most times I take Saturday off)

    *All sets are 10-12 reps, increasing weight unless noted*

    Also after every workout I do 20-30min on the treadmill. I alternate speed and incline to keep my heart rate up and my muscle working, but I do it so I don't tire myself out too fast. Usually "burn" ~250 calories by the treadmill recording. My legs get really big, really fast so I don't do a separate legs day although I do still work them.

    EDIT: I've been told its a lot of iso, but the people who told me that are advocates of things like Stronglifts 5x5 and whatnot. Which is a bit of a different route from what Im going.

    Day 1: Chest/Quad
    -4x Flat Bench DB
    -3x Incline DB
    -3x Cable Fly
    -3x Incline DB Fly
    -Sets of unassisted dips until I cant do at least 5
    -Hack Squats, 10x high weight, go down and do 20, down and do 30

    Day 2: Back/Ham
    -4x Wide Grip Pullups, usually only get 6-7 on last set
    -4x Seated Row
    -3x Close Grip Pulldowns
    -3x Bent over row w/ DB
    -3x Iso Lat Pulldown, each set to failure
    -3x Hamstring exercise

    Day 3: Shoulder/Calves
    -3x Military Press DB
    -3x Lat Raises DB
    -3x Front Raises BB
    -3x Upright Rows
    -3x Rear Delt Rows DB
    -3x Shrugs
    -3x Calf raises

    Day 4: Arms
    -3x Preacher Curl
    -3x Seated Bicep Curl DB
    -3x Tricep Cable Pulldown, rope grip
    -3x Skullcrusher
    -3x Reverse Grip Pullups to failure
    -3x Tricep Dips to failure

  10. #230
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumblingdrunk View Post
    This is what i'm not understanding Archi, you can obviously recognize the difficulty in training for this. You're a man in decent shape, and you've been reduced to 9-10 minute miles
    What you're not understanding is that I was never able to run much faster than that. I haven't been "reduced to" anything.

    If you told me to go run an 8 minute mile right now I'd be like "....fuck you." If you told me to run 3 of them (outside, not on a treadmill) I doubt I'd be able to. My fastest 3-mile run ever (and I time all my runs) has been around 26:30.

    I'm a man in "decent shape" by some metrics - meaning I look nice with my clothes off - but I've never had any cardio of any sort in my life. Hell, I get exhausted having sex.

    Training for a marathon is just time+perseverance. The only real skill is avoiding injury, I guess - and that's a pretty fucking arbitrary skill. It's about the least "sporting" thing I can think of. I couldn't groan any harder at this:
    It is sport, in its purest form.
    Give me a break.

    Ok, going for a 6-miler, first time running since fucking my left knee up. I should work on my "avoiding injury" skillset apparently.

  11. #231
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    Running is no different than an y other sport from a skill standpoint. It takes practice to get good and a very small percentage of people possess the genetics to be great. I tkaes no more skill to run with a football or put a ball in the hoop. You don't have to have a certain skillset to play basketball at a high level, you have to work your ass off. Read Malcolm gladwells outliers. It's an interesting look at success in business and sports.

  12. #232
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Lulz. See? Even a runner who isn't normally a douchebag will get all mad and try to say it requires just as much skill as real sports.

    Ya'll are the same

    (haven't left for my run yet, digesting my oatmeal)

  13. #233
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    Nice refute. Insightful.

  14. #234
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    To put it simply, runners are really easy to troll.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    Running is no different than an y other sport from a skill standpoint. It takes practice to get good and a very small percentage of people possess the genetics to be great. I tkaes no more skill to run with a football or put a ball in the hoop. You don't have to have a certain skillset to play basketball at a high level, you have to work your ass off. Read Malcolm gladwells outliers. It's an interesting look at success in business and sports.
    I'm not trying to hate on running but do you really think it takes just as much skill as baseball, basketball, football?

  16. #236
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    Do you think the ability to run sub 5:00 miles comes naturally?

  17. #237
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    No... it obviously takes training and athletic ability. I still don't see it requiring the same amount of skill as those other sports I mentioned.

  18. #238
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    What skill does a running back possess, holding a ball, cutting, field vision? It's all training and athletic ability. The top percentages of the athletes have a gift, it's the same with running, basketball, football, baseball, etc, but you have to put in the work in every sport. Even the most gifted athletes fail if they don't train at a high level. Use Michael Vick for an example, he went on Atlanta radio yesterday and said he continuously mailed it in while playing for the falcons. He said he settled for mediocrity, and he's probably the most gifted athlete to ever play the QB position. Let me follow this up with an example. We'll use Archi since he's posted some times we can relate to. Not trying to pick on you, just want to use you as an example. His fastest 3 miles is over 26 minutes. A 5k race is 3.1 miles. Giving him some credit, if he were to race a 5k, he'd probably finish in about 23 minutes. A 23 minute 5k would put you as a back of the back middle-school level talent. Do you think you could train for baseball for 16 weeks and play at a middle school level skillwise?

    On the flip side of that, elite runners may run 130 miles a week. They'll do tempo runs in the 5 minute mile range, and long/recovery runs in the 7 minute a mile range. So we'll say, throughout a week, they average 130 miles at 6 minutes a mile. That comes to about 13 hours a week of just running. That doesn't include the various strength training, swimming, cycling, and other various cross training activities. Runners put as much time into honing their craft as other athletes do at the elite level.

  19. #239
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    I will start by saying I'm not arguing about the amount of training time it takes. Also I don't think the amount of time training to get to a middle-school level is a good comparison. Running is fundamentally different than those team sports. We might as well throw tennis into the discussion so we can have another individual sport for comparison.

    Correct me if I am wrong, although I am probably oversimplifying it, but is distance running not just a matter of good form and good pacing? Not saying those don't take time to master, but Baseball/Basketball/Football/Tennis contain many more facets and in my mind that means they require more skill.

    As for your running back comment, you still have to memorize a thick playbook, know blocking assignments, and audibles. A nose tackle is probably a better example(to prove your point) since most of the time their only responsibility is to hold their ground, although the best will be able to diagnose screens/draws and have a bigger impact.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moss View Post
    I will start by saying I'm not arguing about the amount of training time it takes. Also I don't think the amount of time training to get to a middle-school level is a good comparison. Running is fundamentally different than those team sports. We might as well throw tennis into the discussion so we can have another individual sport for comparison.

    Correct me if I am wrong, although I am probably oversimplifying it, but is distance running not just a matter of good form and good pacing? Not saying those don't take time to master, but Baseball/Basketball/Football/Tennis contain many more facets and in my mind that means they require more skill.

    As for your running back comment, you still have to memorize a thick playbook, know blocking assignments, and audibles. A nose tackle is probably a better example(to prove your point) since most of the time their only responsibility is to hold their ground, although the best will be able to diagnose screens/draws and have a bigger impact.

    Does memorizing thick playbooks, blocking assignments, and audibles take skill or training and study?

    And yes, you over simplified distance running. Just because something is multi-faceted doesn't mean it takes more skill. You have pitchers in baseball who are shitty batters. You have great batters who are shitty fielders. You have running backs that couldn't go on defense. Outside of the greatest of the greats, typically athletes are great at a singular skillset, and mediocre at the others.

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