For BG fitness fanatics, a question..

[Atreides]

Yea that is a given. I am skinny, but I have no problem packing on the calories if need be, although I do need to cut out the fried food from my diet. Might grab one of those weight gaining supplements to make it easier, although that many calories in one serving is kinda scary. With my body type and physical activity though, not much risk of getting fat or anything like that.

Was mainly just curious about what kind of timing I need to at least get some muscle growth. Pretty busy this semester so just want to make sure I'm not wasting too much time due to being too inefficient with my lifting/running scheduling.

don't go nuts with suppements really, just a simple protein powder is probably fine. As long as you're eating enough protein it doesn't really matter all that much when you eat it as long as it's not all crammed into 1 meal, although I'd definitely try to have a shake or high-protein meal within 30 minutes of your workout.

The trick to gaining muscle is lifting HEAVY weights, ideally adding weight to the bar every time you go to the gym. If you're just starting out and want some good basic information on lifts/programming, you may want to check out Starting Strength, which usually gets recommended to most newcomers at the various bodybuilding forums on the internet, and with good reason.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._Strength_Wiki
You can get the book online, although it's a little pricey on amazon.

[BadKarma]

Just got a question about calorie intake: I'm 6'1 193lbs, anyone have a website or an idea where I can see how many calories a day I should get.

[Atreides]

the link In Flames just posted above has a BMR calculator on it. Simply put (perhaps too simply): To lose weight subtract 500 from that, to gain weight add 500.

[BerenTebogo]

don't go nuts with suppements really, just a simple protein powder is probably fine. As long as you're eating enough protein it doesn't really matter all that much when you eat it as long as it's not all crammed into 1 meal, although I'd definitely try to have a shake or high-protein meal within 30 minutes of your workout.

The trick to gaining muscle is lifting HEAVY weights, ideally adding weight to the bar every time you go to the gym. If you're just starting out and want some good basic information on lifts/programming, you may want to check out Starting Strength, which usually gets recommended to most newcomers at the various bodybuilding forums on the internet, and with good reason.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._Strength_Wiki
You can get the book online, although it's a little pricey on amazon.

He said he doesn't want to get jacked and only wants a bit of muscle growth so heavy weights, and more importantly advice from body building forums, are going to be counter-productive for him.

Significant increases in the weights lifted will make him jacked, especially if he's young and healthy. As someone who has an almost identical body type (same height and weight for the majority of my life) I'm confident that the results gained by increasing the weight aren't the results he's looking for (unless I'm misinterpreting)

Drastically increasing reps and slowly and gradually increasing the weight will tone, shape, and to a lesser extent, build muscle in the target area. This will give him a very noticeable increase in muscle definition (looking incredibly jacked while still being skinny) and it will still result in muscle growth and weight gain.

10-15lbs if your natural weight is 155 is still going to allow you to fit comfortably into all the clothes you own and leave you feeling happy with the results. I've no doubt you can put on 30-35lbs of muscle in a very short amount of time by going into heavy weight training activities since you're a healthy guy, but you're gonna need a whole new wardrobe, lol.

[In Flames]

I have to echo what Sath and Atreides have said about the shakes. Most people tend to think that they're some sort of gift from god and that if they don't take them then they won't put on any muscle. They are supplements, and that's all. Your routine and eating habits are first priority. If you can't get enough protein in your food, then throw in a supplement to help. If you want a good source of creatine, l-glutamine or whatever else, look for something containing those, or even the pure ingredient and mix it yourself.

[richardd]

what are some good love handle workouts for bigger guys? im doing situps but the results are coming in too slow ;

im also eating approx 1400-1600 cals a day with 1-2 hours of workouts/cardio, but everything else seems to be toning in except my lovers on each side.

im loving bench presses lately though, idk if i was a late bloomer, but im getting closer to 400 now with 350 i just did yesterday 2x. res said with my body type, id see better results with more weight less reps

[Lbelle]

I'm a bit confused. I know that he is asking how to BULK UP and you're all recommending protein, but what if you're trying to get lean/toned? Would the same things you're mentioning about the protein still hold true?

I'm doing the P90X system and they always say to drink a protein drink after the workouts but I thought that was just them advertising their product and not sure how true it is....

[richardd]

ive never actually taken any protein drinks, but im trying to tone down and lose some weight while getting lean in other areas lol.

im seeing so many improvements with my friends who are taking these supplements and shakes while im on the sidelines eating eggwhites 1-2 hours before hand, but im just worried that its only a temporary fix. i dont want want my body to get used to it and than start "needing" it to maintain a good workout.

i still need to do research on that crap

[Atreides]

10-15lbs if your natural weight is 155 is still going to allow you to fit comfortably into all the clothes you own and leave you feeling happy with the results. I've no doubt you can put on 30-35lbs of muscle in a very short amount of time by going into heavy weight training activities since you're a healthy guy, but you're gonna need a whole new wardrobe, lol.

actually, 10-15 lbs of muscle is a very significant increase. As a general rule people can't gain more than 20 or so lbs in a year, even with perfect genetics/diet/training. It's a slow process no matter what your goal is.

Drastically increasing reps and slowly and gradually increasing the weight will tone, shape, and to a lesser extent, build muscle in the target area. This will give him a very noticeable increase in muscle definition (looking incredibly jacked while still being skinny) and it will still result in muscle growth and weight gain.

That's great if that worked for you, but there's no such thing as "toning". You can either gain muscle, or lose fat, that's really it.

He said he doesn't want to get jacked and only wants a bit of muscle growth so heavy weights, and more importantly advice from body building forums, are going to be counter-productive for him.

the book teaches the principles and more importantly techniques for lifting without injuring yourself, which is helpful for anyone regardless of goals. I think it's a little haughty to dismiss advice as not what you're looking for simply because it comes from a bodybuilding forum and you're not a bodybuilder.

[BerenTebogo]

There's pretty much 2 end game scenarios for a naturally skinny person who wants to weight train and exercise in order to build muscle. I'm going to use somewhat exaggerated examples of both of these to convey my point:

Type 1: Heavy weights, protein, intent to build muscle mass

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...da78fbda87.jpg

Type 2: High rep, smaller increases in weight, intent to tone and strengthen existing muscle with smaller amounts of muscle gain

http://www.siamfoundation.org/wellwo...Tony-Jaa-1.jpg

Both are fit, toned, and muscular. The difference is in the type of training. Both can make you stronger, healthier, and happier with your appearance.

Each person is going to want something different out of weight training. I, for one, don't like bulking up. I much prefer to strengthen and tone.

[Haylie]

My protein shake of choice is On Gold Standard, 100% Whey. I like the cookies and cream flavor...sometimes I splurge and toss some milk in there. It's the best tasting shake i've tried and with heavier weights and lower reps i've increased my muscle mass a lot more than I did using any creatine.

[Tyche]

I'm a bit confused. I know that he is asking how to BULK UP and you're all recommending protein, but what if you're trying to get lean/toned? Would the same things you're mentioning about the protein still hold true?

I'm doing the P90X system and they always say to drink a protein drink after the workouts but I thought that was just them advertising their product and not sure how true it is....

After workouts, you want to replenish what your body used up. Proteins, carbs, antioxidants, etc...Drinking a single protein drink after a workout isn't going to bulk you up.

[Atreides]

you're still missing the point that there's no such thing as toning.

And honestly, genetics/bone structure play a bigger role in how different those pictures look than the type of workouts they do and what they eat.

Regardless, both of those are several months to 1 year of training away from 155 lbs and skinny. You can't get jacked up quickly enough not to realize it.

[Tyche]

Also, I've seen some very talented runners with larger and toned upper bodies and arms. I don't think running will hinder it if you wish to accomplish both. I've never been interested in bulking my upper body, so I really have no advice on how they do it.

[Lbelle]

After workouts, you want to replenish what your body used up. Proteins, carbs, antioxidants, etc...Drinking a single protein drink after a workout isn't going to bulk you up.

That's not what I'm asking though. I'm asking would it be good for my workout program if I used a protein drink, or would I get the same results if I did not use one?

[BerenTebogo]

you're still missing the point that there's no such thing as toning.

And honestly, genetics/bone structure play a bigger role in how different those pictures look than the type of workouts they do and what they eat.

Regardless, both of those are several months to 1 year of training away from 155 lbs and skinny. You can't get jacked up quickly enough not to realize it.

Like I said, it was purposefully exaggerated. I'm not implying that if you do x,y,z you too can be the next muay thai champion.

Toning is a colloquialism, I'm well aware of that. To people who aren't fitness or anatomy experts there's only so many ways to explain the different approaches to training without slanging it up a bit.

I think the biggest issue is that we probably have different versions of jacked. I was 5'11 145-155lbs for the majority of my life and I was in far better shape than most of the people I knew. This wasn't from weight training it was from 12 years of intense martial arts training.

When I stopped training and let fitness take a back burner (partially because of FFXI, damn you FFXI) I decided a few years later to get back on the horse with weight training and protein shakes, like I'm gathering a lot of you do. I went from 155 to 170lbs in about 4-5 months, almost all bulk muscle. I looked jacked, was jacked, etc and many people thought I looked better as a bit more muscular, but I didn't.

It is very easy to let the increase of muscle get away from you, whether you notice it or not, since it's very fun working out and setting goals and breaking them and etc. Zoo is a skinny guy who is wary of becoming jacked, I figure the least I can do is offer an alternative to straight muscle gain.

There is something to be said for doing 200 pushups instead of 45 reps on a bench. Like I said, it's all in what you want out of it. Many martial artists, gymnasts, dancers (I went to college in FL with a heavy focus on Dance majors) do the majority of their training without heavy weights, myself included.

[Tyche]

That's not what I'm asking though. I'm asking would it be good for my workout program if I used a protein drink, or would I get the same results if I did not use one?

You'll want to replenish in some way, be it by protein/carb drinks and/or eating shortly after the workout.

[Atreides]

Like I said, it was purposefully exaggerated. I'm not implying that if you do x,y,z you too can be the next muay thai champion.

Toning is a colloquialism, I'm well aware of that. To people who aren't fitness or anatomy experts there's only so many ways to explain the different approaches to training without slanging it up a bit.

I think the biggest issue is that we probably have different versions of jacked. I was 5'11 145-155lbs for the majority of my life and I was in far better shape than most of the people I knew. This wasn't from weight training it was from 12 years of intense martial arts training.

When I stopped training and let fitness take a back burner (partially because of FFXI, damn you FFXI) I decided a few years later to get back on the horse with weight training and protein shakes, like I'm gathering a lot of you do. I went from 155 to 170lbs in about 4-5 months, almost all bulk muscle. I looked jacked, was jacked, etc and many people thought I looked better as a bit more muscular, but I didn't.

It is very easy to let the increase of muscle get away from you, whether you notice it or not, since it's very fun working out and setting goals and breaking them and etc. Zoo is a skinny guy who is wary of becoming jacked, I figure the least I can do is offer an alternative to straight muscle gain.

There is something to be said for doing 200 pushups instead of 45 reps on a bench. Like I said, it's all in what you want out of it. Many martial artists, gymnasts, dancers (I went to college in FL with a heavy focus on Dance majors) do the majority of their training without heavy weights, myself included.

.

yeah I get what you mean, but like I said before if he's starting out at 155 and a slight build he's got a long way to go no matter what he's going for. The weight gain you experienced is pretty damn impressive, but by no means typical. But yeah, it's really common to see people saying they want to be "defined and toned, but not bulky, like brad pitt in fight club" but most of those people don't really understand that merely having the lean body type they're looking for requires a relatively large gain in muscle mass.

Remember that "heavy" weights are relative as well, if he's starting at 155 and never lifted a day in his life it'll be a pretty long time before he's squatting 1.5-2x his own body weight, even with the constant and fast progress of an incremental program.

Honestly, Starting Strength is pretty great no matter what you're trying to accomplish, which is why it's recommended by so many. If your goal is to add muscle and get strong you really can't go wrong with compound barbell lifts. People have some sort of weird aversion to squatting and deadlifting, not like it'll make you explode overnight.

[BerenTebogo]

That's true, no question. The part I disagree with you on most I think is the bare bones of the training. I don't disagree in any way that what you're suggesting he look into will build muscle MASS. What I'm disagreeing with is based on the rest of his post.

He's a healthy guy who likes to work out and does a lot of cardio. The efficiency of his body is important to him. His legs are strong because he runs every day, not because he does leg presses and the like. His core is strong because his body has been conditioned to support his breathing, and strengthened by the torsion as his arms and legs move when he runs. His body is strong and healthy before the introduction of any 3rd party factors (weights)

Building muscle works on resistance, this we all know. The barbell resists motion because of the mass it carries, our arms, back, chest, and legs fight to overcome that resistance. Once the barbell is off the ground though, fewer parts of the body need to fight to over come the resistance (the difference in workout between curls and deadlifts, again, common sense)

The weight of our body also offers resistance though, and due to a greater surface area it requires more strength to counter the resistance of the mass while also keeping balanced. A handstand, for instance, would put 155lbs of weight onto your forearms, triceps, biceps, shoulders, back, chest, and lower back to distribute the weight. It then requires your stomach, hips, ass, thighs, and the rest of your legs to act as a stabilizing force, so you don't fall flat on your face. The amount of time you can balance in that position is based on your strength, not just of your upper body, but of your entire body working together.

Person A may be able to bench 300lbs, and with a gun to their head, may not be able to even hold a hand stand for 5 seconds. Person B may only be able to bench 150 but may be able to do a handstand for 1minute+ or even do it 1-handed. Purely hypothetical situations, but...who is stronger? And who do you think looks better?

I'm inferring a lot from Zoo's few posts, but he's a runner not a weight lifter. I'd put even money down that at the end of the day, and especially a few years down the road, he'll be happier strengthening his entire body and not just bulking up his upper body.

Pushups, situps, curls, pull-ups, squats, etc are a very good foundation to a healthy, strong, and muscular body. Combine that with light lifting at large amounts of repetitions and you'll be a happy person.

I'm not saying by any means that weight training is bad, or that bulking up is bad, or that it wont make you strong. I'm just saying that strength isn't limited to how much you can bench and this thread really seems to be going in that direction. I wanted to give another side to it, even if most here think it's full of shit.

[Atreides]

at no point did I advocate he strengthen solely or even primarily his upper body, in fact the core of starting strength is the low bar back squat, a compound exercise that works the glutes and hip flexors. In fact, there's no direct arm work in the program at all. Someone looking to get stronger should focus on strengthening their back/core, not try to get juiced pecs/biceps.