FFXIV Closed Alpha/Beta Discussion (Cancelled for this week)

[Ksandra]

So semi-offtopic, but I didn't want to make a whole new thread on it. But for those in alpha in any of the stuff you've been given does it suggest there might be some pvp involved?

I came across and old interview with SE about 14 where it said:

"What modern day MMOs have influenced the design and direction of FFXIV?
In addition to the team's original work on Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan and Warhammer Online have been three recent games that have had some pull, but the FFXI community's feedback has been the most important factor in its design. "

All three games listed are pretty heavy with PvP. Of course that might not be what they're referring to, which is why I ask. I will be the first to admit that over time I became addicted to battlegrounds-type pvping, and would be interesting to see something like it implemented in FFXIV (and be better than lolballista).

[supercoco]

i guess there will be some kind of Ballista :/ ( ff gonna be just pve again i think )

[Destinye]

They commented that if they add PvP it will indeed be sports type like Ballista.

[Roscobel]

Never understood why they did not integrate Tetra Master in XI. Do hope for some card-game or casino games in XIV. It's just nice to do something else from time to time.. without logging out.. Mini-games, yes please.

Was always a fan of Ballista.. in it's glory time.. too bad it's dead. It's SE fault for making the entry (periods/locations etc.) so damn difficult. Just make a lobby, lvl sync etc. easy. Really enjoyed it, and also do hope it's in XIV.

[altwight]

So semi-offtopic, but I didn't want to make a whole new thread on it. But for those in alpha in any of the stuff you've been given does it suggest there might be some pvp involved?

I came across and old interview with SE about 14 where it said:

"What modern day MMOs have influenced the design and direction of FFXIV?
In addition to the team's original work on Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan and Warhammer Online have been three recent games that have had some pull, but the FFXI community's feedback has been the most important factor in its design. "

All three games listed are pretty heavy with PvP. Of course that might not be what they're referring to, which is why I ask. I will be the first to admit that over time I became addicted to battlegrounds-type pvping, and would be interesting to see something like it implemented in FFXIV (and be better than lolballista).

all they need is dueling and that would be enough. imo

[bluefan]

all they need is dueling and that would be enough. imo

SEs already stated their dislike for straight PKing PvP. And I really hope they don't bring it in, otherwise it'll really fu-- up class balance like it did in WoW.

Bring in a Ballista style and that'll serve my PvP needs.

[fantasticdan]

SEs already stated their dislike for straight PKing PvP. And I really hope they don't bring it in, otherwise it'll really fu-- up class balance like it did in WoW.

Bring in a Ballista style and that'll serve my PvP needs.

SE doesn't have to balance classes around duels, just like they never balanced classes around ballista.

[Machazareel]

People will bitch like mad over losing duels, I'd prefer to keep PvP out of FF, there's plenty of other games out there to fill that hunger.

[Destinye]

That and then people will want open PK so they can act like asses and kill people not even interested in PvP and just trying to quest/level/synthesize/etc in peace I don't see how people find any fun in that at all honestly.

SE wants to avoid that.

[LinktheDeme]

SEs already stated their dislike for straight PKing PvP. And I really hope they don't bring it in, otherwise it'll really fu-- up class balance like it did in WoW.

Bring in a Ballista style and that'll serve my PvP needs.

Dueling is something both players have to agree to, and you can't run up and player kill. Essentially its an agreed PvP where neither person can actually die in any non town area.

[supercoco]

Give some kind of gear/exp/items while doing Ballista , like WoW does, and ballista won't die so fast again.

I had a lot of fun until it died

[bluefan]

People will bitch like mad over losing duels, I'd prefer to keep PvP out of FF, there's plenty of other games out there to fill that hunger.

^

WoW PvP is fun because it's essentially like a third person shooter with magic. It lost its magic long ago because of balancing and gear issues. Look how messed up it became when Blizzard tried balancing the PvE aspect with the PvP. And with the introduction of arena. If people haven't heard, Blizzard themselves admitted that implementing PvP (specifically arena) screwed up the outlook they had with the game.

Even just a duel function, the inevitable whine fest will come along. If you want PvP, there are plenty of games out there to fulfill that need. I play TF2 on a regular basis with friends because of that reason.

[LD]

Seems like most people dislike what surrounds PvP rather than PvP itself. Personally, I could give two shits as long as PvE is fun enough, but I gotta admit that PvP in WoW fills in time better at 80 than dungeons. I suppose it's the unpredictability (and now that emblems are gone, botters can't fuck up a game anywhere near as much). Basically, every game needs something to do when the main quest to save the world either can't be done or gets stale. FFXI's problem was that it didn't provide that in an accessible way. WoW's (and FFXI's) problem is that it ONLY does it through fighting.

I think it's important for us to remember that PvP is just short for 'Player versus Player', not 'the PvE battle system used against other players'. SE approached the differentiation in FFXI by making it into a game rather than resource acquisition or territory claiming. They just didn't go far enough. Personally, I don't think most people who want PvP want to epeen so much as they want to test themselves against other people.

The Guildleve system provides an interesting scenario: You are given a Leve, which is a crystal card. You complete the Leve, but what happens to the card? Does it just disappear? Can it be reused? What if you keep it forever in its used state? What if, since they're all different plates representing different objectives, each one has their own properties even when used? What if every time you complete a Guildleve quest, you collect the dead card to use in a mini-game? It would be a perfect way to make sure everyone is able to take part in it without forcing them to take part in events irrelevant to the main game if they don't want to. It will also make sure the best or rarest cards are only available to those who do the toughest quests.

[Machazareel]

Seems like most people dislike what surrounds PvP rather than PvP itself.

Correct. I enjoy PvP personally, but I dislike the crap that comes along with it. Some of the most annoying things for a PvE player in WoW, or assumably any other MMO, is when their class gets nerfed due to PvP balancing.
I know people think just adding dueling won't matter much, but I can pretty much guarantee that if people are able to fight eachother at the click of a button whenever they want, there will be an evergrowing shitstorm of butthurt little bitches who just can't handle not winning, and will scream bloody murder all over the forums until shit is changed so that they can win more often.
Threads with actual information get drowned in the constantly rising sea of retardation as the hordes of pvp whiners create thread upon thread about the same damn thing, every fucking day until their screams are heard.

If they want PvP, go play WoW, Aion, AoC, WAR... anything else. Just let this game stay untainted from that bullshit. Diversions are fine, but PvP doesn't have to be one of them, and I hope to fucking god it isn't in FF14.

[Vacht]

SEs already stated their dislike for straight PKing PvP. And I really hope they don't bring it in, otherwise it'll really fu-- up class balance like it did in WoW.

Bring in a Ballista style and that'll serve my PvP needs.

dark age is a perfect example of balancing classes.. although the balancing really limited mythic when trying to create new classes, it worked fairly well. The system was pretty much like this:

There were heavy tanks, light tanks, assassins, archers, heavy casters, debuffers with poisons usually, and classes with buffs with some DD, or high defense.

Heavy tanks > stealthers, light tanks and sometimes mages

Light tanks = stealthers: were kinda even in battle if crit shot or backstab was landed, if straight battle tnak wins

Stealthers > mages, buffers and any unsuspecting light tank, and the occasional gank of a heavy tank.

Mages > everyone pretty much, if they got the jump on you


But the overall progression was Tanks > stealthers > mages > tanks etc

It worked out really well.

The Guildleve system provides an interesting scenario: You are given a Leve, which is a crystal card. You complete the Leve, but what happens to the card? Does it just disappear? Can it be reused? What if you keep it forever in its used state? What if, since they're all different plates representing different objectives, each one has their own properties even when used? What if every time you complete a Guildleve quest, you collect the dead card to use in a mini-game? It would be a perfect way to make sure everyone is able to take part in it without forcing them to take part in events irrelevant to the main game if they don't want to. It will also make sure the best or rarest cards are only available to those who do the toughest quests.

RAD IDEA!

That and then people will want open PK so they can act like asses and kill people not even interested in PvP and just trying to quest/level/synthesize/etc in peace I don't see how people find any fun in that at all honestly.

SE wants to avoid that.

In dark age on the pvp server i really enjoyed being in a guild of 4 people, all stealthers and we played together. It was nice having an aggressive faction, where you PK'd almost anyone you saw. Youd be hanging out and just have a bunch of random low levels attack you because of your guild, or prevent you from playing the game. It was fun to have that sense of vulnerability, it made it much more intesne and fun. But i do understand it is not for everyone. As far as i knew people hated my friends and i. They called it "Griefing."

[LD]

@Machazareel: As a person who just wants to play the game at all, I don't think that's a good enough excuse.

[Mytiwar]

I think Ballista was nothing short of glorious. It lacked one major thing though; actual rewards.

[niwaar]

If they want PvP, go play WoW, Aion, AoC, WAR... anything else. Just let this game stay untainted from that bullshit. Diversions are fine, but PvP doesn't have to be one of them, and I hope to fucking god it isn't in FF14.

PvP in an MMO simply doesn't exist past the 1 v 1 duel or arena mentality. It simply isn't interesting or fun. Open world pvp and even battleground pvp tend to go into the realms of GankvP. Remember all those days trying to get anything done in and around Southshore on that PvP server? Only to have one of the many level 50 gnome rogue's come out of stealth and gank you. Not fun, not productive. SE knows this all too well, and realizes that the strength of XI was that it was built for the PvE experience and never once strayed from tuning things towards that end.

Dueling and PvP in general wont be a part of XIV if they stick with their focus and we will all be better off for it. A Ballista style game coming later on in the games lifespan will probably happen, but it'll be just that ... a "game" within the game, not a true PvP experience.

[Purrrfect]

Ballista is fine with me. Hell I can't even say I'd need rewards for it. Scenarios in WAR were fun regardless of getting the winning bonus points or not.

[Rokku]

Ballista was a lot of fun, but like a lot of people have said, it lacked anything to make it really worth doing. I don't really think SE needs to put any sort of PvP system into XIV, but as long as it's more along the lines of Ballista again and not something that they balance the core of the game around, I'd welcome such a system.