Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (August 8, 2014)

[Kohan]

I suppose we'd first have to agree on what the baseline is before we evaluate the adaptations. The cartoons and the films were made to sell toys, nothing else. [...] Wanting a good writer, good production designer and good director to put together a TMNT film is wishing it to be something it never really was. To do so in the name of nostalgia makes even less sense.

Yeah, I don't think it's possible for me to disagree more.

If you're seriously going to start talking about the history of the franchise, and you think it's actually wise to use this as an example of how quality doesn't matter, you're disrespecting the creators' feelings on what originally happened with TMNT. They didn't want the cartoon to make as many compromises as it did, and this even included Kevin "I'll Roll Over About Everything Nowadays" Eastman—it's something they wished they could've redone.

What they envisioned for the TMNT cartoon was much like the more critically praised animated series that followed, a la the aforementioned "Batman: The Animated Series," or "Teen Titans," or anything of such respectable quality. Did they cash the checks? Yeah, sure. Shit, I don't blame them for that. I'll roll around on a Goddamn bed of cash just as fast as the next person. Is it what they wanted in the first place? No, and we'll never know if they really would've had a problem selling those figures if they'd pushed for something sincere.

Even so, I wouldn't say that it's strictly nostalgia playing a part—after all, the original TMNT cartoon had some mighty fine voice actors, and that does make a difference. You may have a silly story, and a villain that embodies incompetence, but can you sell it? Can you take that shit and own it? They sure as hell did.

Beyond that, the first TMNT film was more of an homage to the original comics than the cartoon series. It used various staples that the latter pioneered, like unique colors for each of the turtles, and Michelangelo's party dude persona, but it was far more in line with their original vision. The darker concept also meshed well with Jim Henson's Creature Shop and their tendency to produce good fantastical works, like the preceding "The Dark Crystal," or their later work on "Farscape."

Did the movie do well because the cartoon and toys already existed? I think you'd be a fool to say no, and I know you won't, and I don't think anyone else around here will either. No toys were made based on it, though. Additionally, did it stand on its own as a good movie, especially considering what it involved (puppetry) and for the time? Yes, and it's still completely enjoyable to watch today, even if said puppetry might be tougher for modern audiences to accept.

I do believe that a standard was set. Each production demonstrated that you can be straight, or you can be silly, but you can still produce something that can be called "good" at worst. Either it's got your heart in it, or it's got some good actors behind it, or it's got something to prop it up and keep it in the realm of reasonable quality. Before Bay, almost every effort to create something that was truly shit with the TMNT label didn't do well—like the aforementioned third movie, or the musical that barely made it through its first tour before plodding through the second, or the toys that Playmates made out of desperation in the late '90s when the turtles weren't popular (and yes, there was a period where they weren't).

And if you want to do another TMNT movie that's respectful of all that, it's already been done before, so there's a bar there, too.

The new flick is shit. It didn't have to be.

[Correction]

Yeah, I don't think it's possible for me to disagree more.

I guess I should have put quotes around 'good' for directors as a way to respond to the outcry that the team that put together the 2014 is doing a worse job than anybody's dream production team would have (i.e. 'money talks'). Hollywood blockbusters suffer from the same malaise as AAA video game production. You just don't take substantial risks with 9 digit budgets anymore, and there are few names in hollywood as bankable as Bay these days. To expect your favorite director, screenwriter, cinematographer to make a lasting work of TMNT cinema art that hits all the notes with OG fans is sheer fantasy, the pressure on the production would guarantee either ruination or the same bland junk cinema that's making Paramount's accounting division laminate their balance sheets to make wiping the come off them easier. If Eastman and Laird didn't sell out to everyone with a checkbook in the 80s they'd be condemned to the same obscurity as their original designs inhabit permanently. TMNT is a success because it's bland, safe entertainment for children. That's the form it's going to keep for the foreseeable future unless big budget film production completely collapses and from the ashes rises a renaissance of filmmakers who are willing to push back against pure profit motives.

It's fully in this context that I characterize the old TMNT stuff as crass commercial art pushed on kids to guarantee a perpetual slot on that XMas wish list. I still love my comics and probably have the sourcebooks for the Palladium tabletop RPG somewhere, though. I fully embrace my role as part of the problem, I love crass commercial art!

[Kohan]

I guess I should have put quotes around 'good' for directors as a way to respond to the outcry that the team that put together the 2014 is doing a worse job than anybody's dream production team would have (i.e. 'money talks'). Hollywood blockbusters suffer from the same malaise as AAA video game production. You just don't take substantial risks with 9 digit budgets anymore, and there are few names in hollywood as bankable as Bay these days.

I don't disagree with that, as much as I wish I could.

To expect your favorite director, screenwriter, cinematographer to make a lasting work of TMNT cinema art that hits all the notes with OG fans is sheer fantasy, the pressure on the production would guarantee either ruination or the same bland junk cinema that's making Paramount's accounting division laminate their balance sheets to make wiping the come off them easier. If Eastman and Laird didn't sell out to everyone with a checkbook in the 80s they'd be condemned to the same obscurity as their original designs inhabit permanently. TMNT is a success because it's bland, safe entertainment for children. That's the form it's going to keep for the foreseeable future unless big budget film production completely collapses and from the ashes rises a renaissance of filmmakers who are willing to push back against pure profit motives.

I wouldn't expect someone to make a TMNT that's exactly like the original (presuming that "original" here is the first comic book series, which I still have issues of, too). I would expect, however, for someone to make something of reasonable quality, which I tried to emphasize above. The first TMNT movie did take risks in its being not as silly as the 1980s cartoon, but it was successful, and it was good. I'd be perfectly happy with a modernized version of that, for example. If not that, why not a good reboot? The 2003 animated series demonstrated that this could be done. Again, this franchise isn't all historically shit—and you've made it sound like you're a fan, too, so you can recognize that, can't you? I wouldn't say that wishing for something decent is "pure fantasy," therefore.

It's fully in this context that I characterize the old TMNT stuff as crass commercial art pushed on kids to guarantee a perpetual slot on that XMas wish list. I still love my comics and probably have the sourcebooks for the Palladium tabletop RPG somewhere, though. I fully embrace my role as part of the problem, I love crass commercial art!

I do agree in the case of the 1980s cartoon, as it specifically was made to sell toys, as you said. Not everything ever related to TMNT was, though, and not everything shoehorned into the franchise was successful.

Really, and under scrutiny, I wouldn't even call that a bad thing. The 1980s cartoon was cheesy, and lighthearted, and this was done at the behest of Playmates—but it had talented voice actors, and decent animation, and the toys were good. Nothing wrong with that, right? Kids wanted that shit like crazy, but it was good shit. So, why do we now have to settle for all around crap?

To note again, I do agree with you as to why people don't want to take risks now—I'm in agreement on that. I'm disgusted with it, but I know it's reality.

[Mrbeansman]

Yeah, I seem to recall him saying the same thing after 3. I imagine Paramount (right?) will roll a giant truck of money up to his door to get him on for 5.

Bay only stayed on for 4 because Paramount was willing to throw money behind Pain and Gain pretty sure hes walking regardless of any trucks of money.

[Vandalhart]

My 5 year old wants to see this & gaurdians badly, but I keep telling him he's not old enough. Of course, the new turtle figures that are out in stores are for 4+, so he's asking why he can play with the toys, but not watch the movie.

Part of me wants to bring him, knowing we can leave if need be, but I'm just concerned about the language and violence.

It's entirely up to you wether you take your kid. Personally, (and I don't have kids yet) I wouldn't take my child to this until they were likely 10 years old. It's hard to say without knowing the personality of the child and what not.

There was some pretty graphic scenes in terms of cold hearted violence that I wouldn't want my child to see before they understood that it was just a movie and not real. I also wouldn't want to have my kids trying to replicate what they saw in the film, but that's a danger in all action films.

[Sho]

I still think TMNT3 is better than TMNT 1, but not better than 2.

Fuck everybody in hurr.

[Limlight]

Having not seen any turtles film since TMNT3 (so limited perspective)

but "go ninja, go ninja go! go go go" must live on forever. Nothing else comes close~!

[Kohan]

Having not seen any turtles film since TMNT3 (so limited perspective)

but "go ninja, go ninja go! go go go" must live on forever. Nothing else comes close~!

Vanilla Ice agrees with you.

http://comicsalliance.com/vanilla-ic...cks-the-magic/

[Vaspinne]

So I watched this.... well... I sort of had it on in the background while kind of watching it. And I didn't pay for it either.

Under those circumstances, I sort of enjoyed it I guess.

[AidenCarby]

Finally got to see it, nephews and I had a fucking blast. Will agree with needs moar turtles but overall it was great.

[Fhloston]

Turtles were amazing. Megan Fox blows. Someone else needs to write the script. The dialogue between the turtles was good but everything else was just Bleh.

There's so much potential for a good sequel and it's all going to be wasted on some bullshit. I already know it. 3 minutes into the movie and I was already cringing at the plot. It's like they put all their time into making the Turtles cool (which they did) and forgot to make a decent movie.

Pretty much what I was going to type, but yeah, word for fucking word right here.

Turtles got a good amount of screen time, btw. A lot more than the Transformers do. Just, the plot, and their reworked origin was shit as well.

Spoiler: show

Learning ninjutsu because there happened to be a book about it in the sewers. Seriously.

So much potential, but yeah, Hollywood. Glad I didn't pay to see it.

[Salodin]

Donny was pretty terrible, and his convenient hacks were Wtf worthy.

[BaneTheBrawler]

his dialogue was almost completely technobabble, which is always terrible in a movie that uses existing technology.

[Fhloston]

I agree. They could've given him some normal IT guy type lines and it wouldn't been fine, instead of trying to make him sound like a professor straight out of MIT.

[Kaslo]

Sorry for the bump, but this is out on Netflix now.

Just watched and genuinely surprised. Megan Fox isn't terrible. Turtles personalities are pretty much perfect.

The only major flaw is Shredder as a villain.

[tyven]

So you mean the turtles aren't just a bunch of black stereotypes? News to me!

[Eurell]

This is the movie where the turtles were Aprils pets when she was a kid right?

[Kaslo]

This is the movie where the turtles were Aprils pets when she was a kid right?

yes

[Hirronimus]

So you mean the turtles aren't just a bunch of black stereotypes? News to me!

Blackface is ok now? And don't tell me that the mannerisms of Bay's turtles doesn't scream urban black behavior. Double standards etc

they scream every fucking teenager on the planet. jesus christ, get out of your mom's basement.

Right...

[Kaslo]

They seemed about what you would expect from characters raised on pop culture only.