Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac Job System - Revisiting

[Soa]

I just replayed this game a few months back and I had forgotten how great it was. The characters and story were great (except Penello, whose only real purpose was being Larsa's bff), the world and atmosphere were fantastic, and it had tons of fun and challenging fights. I've always wanted to try out the IZJS version, so maybe this version will be similar to that.

It would also be nice if they made Espers not completely useless, as well as every weapon that isn't a 2 handed sword or polearm after reaching Archades. Not attaching the dark element to every ninja sword when most of the enemies, especially end game, are strong to it would be nice too. And a real map for the Great Crystal. And a better Steal gambit. And have techniks not suck.

[Niiro]

A whole bunch of the things you mentioned were fixed in the IZJS version.

Espers are controllable (can use their ultimates at will), weapons were more balanced (and restricted by job anyway), NIN swords weren't all dark elemental, Technicks were adjusted (stuff like Wither and Expose would work on bosses and you could stack the effect), the effects of a bunch of spells were adjusted, the damage limit was removed, etc.

[Taim Meich]

A whole bunch of the things you mentioned were fixed in the IZJS version.

Espers are controllable (can use their ultimates at will), weapons were more balanced (and restricted by job anyway), NIN swords weren't all dark elemental, Technicks were adjusted (stuff like Wither and Expose would work on bosses and you could stack the effect), the effects of a bunch of spells were adjusted, the damage limit was removed, etc.

...Buuut, they had to add that zodiac job system ;_;

I loved the freedom that the original gambit board gave, considering that even if you had all the options at your disposal, to be proficient at one meant you had to wear the correct equipment. Magic without mystic clothes and a staff was crap, tanking without light headgear + heavy body was inefficient, etc. Although I like job systems, I like the ones that give some flexibility, that is, the trend that FFV started and FFT expanded, with secondary abilities from other jobs and being free to change jobs. Getting locked in a job is the worst >_<

Hopefully, if they make a remaster, they'll add the option to use the old board with all the adjustments from IZJS.

[Omniyoji]

OMG I just remembered that whole zoning three times to make treasure respawn... fuck that shit

[Niiro]

...Buuut, they had to add that zodiac job system ;_;

I loved the freedom that the original gambit board gave, considering that even if you had all the options at your disposal, to be proficient at one meant you had to wear the correct equipment. Magic without mystic clothes and a staff was crap, tanking without light headgear + heavy body was inefficient, etc. Although I like job systems, I like the ones that give some flexibility, that is, the trend that FFV started and FFT expanded, with secondary abilities from other jobs and being free to change jobs. Getting locked in a job is the worst >_<

Hopefully, if they make a remaster, they'll add the option to use the old board with all the adjustments from IZJS.

The IZJS system has......quite a bit of freedom and customization actually, and actually gives a reason to use all 6 characters.

Quickenings and Epsers can be used to access parts of the grid containing special weapon/armor/abilities that generally wouldn't be associated with your current job, and since Espers can only be unlocked once you have decide who to give them to and which skills to unlock.

In the original game equipment pro/cons didn't really mean anything, everyone could wear everything and you could change everyone's gear at any time, and everyone having access to spells like Renew and Arise made things more than a bit trivial.

OMG I just remembered that whole zoning three times to make treasure respawn... fuck that shit

Only have to zone once in IZJS.

[Taim Meich]

The IZJS system has......quite a bit of freedom and customization actually, and actually gives a reason to use all 6 characters.

Quickenings and Epsers can be used to access parts of the grid containing special weapon/armor/abilities that generally wouldn't be associated with your current job, and since Espers can only be unlocked once you have decide who to give them to and which skills to unlock.

In the original game equipment pro/cons didn't really mean anything, everyone could wear everything and you could change everyone's gear at any time, and everyone having access to spells like Renew and Arise made things more than a bit trivial.

Yeah, I read about the zodiac jobs system and how each board worked, etc. But still, with the additional freedom you mention, it's too restricted in my opinion, coupled with the fact that this system is tackled on a pre-existing one, so one of the perks of having a job system, the added personality of each one, is pretty diluted, too. When I change jobs, I expect some degree of visual change, at the very least, and some truly unique abilities for each, too. I'm not debating that it is balanced, of course (I know you didn't mention it, just throwing it just in case), all I'm saying is that, when I read the boards thorougly, all I could think was "my first play through FFXII had more interesting and defined roles than what this board offers".

What you say about Arise and Renew is totally true, of course. But that was just one of the many flaws of the system, like the low ceiling on damage making high-speed weapons better if buffed enough, and making offensive magic useless in endgame, the random coffers, some useless techniks, etc, etc.

[Niiro]

-There's no damage cap in IZJS, making stronger weapons worth using as well as offensive magic
-Break Techniks now work on all targets, even bosses (even Yiazamat), and their effects can stack multiple times

I don't see how your characters could be more "unique" other than self-imposed limitations you put on them.

If you can't find anything unique across 12 different skill/spell/weapon/armor configurations idk what to tell you, you can't make a perfect group, that's the point, you need to make decisions and plan your Quickening/Esper distribution and make good use of all 6 characters in different situations.

As for appearance changes, that just doesn't happen in any FF title any more. It was doable in the 2D era but there haven't been numerous unique models for characters in any 3D FF that wasn't a handheld release.

[Taim Meich]

Yeah, yeah, the appearance thing was only wishful thinking.

My characters were more interesting in my first playthrough because I assigned roles to them and, until the very end, where I just maxed out the board for the sake of it, stuck with those roles. That way, only the "tanks" would get all the HP squares, only the Chemist (Balthier) could use all the items, etc.

As for unique actions, I mean at least jump if you're a dedicated lance user (or not, let's say the lance user isn't a dragoon, let's give it for example a multi-thrust move or something like that), or dual wield for ninka katana users (alternatively, some sort o Sneak Attack skill), etc. That's what I expect if they force me to use just certain skills, I expect some more than just a different selection of the previously available board.

[Niiro]

You're expecting way more out of the IZJS than was possible, they took existing assets and fixed/reworked/improved the mechanics.

The only "new" things in the game were unused assets from when the original was made (I think there's 1 new spell that was unused in the original release).

[Taim Meich]

Precisely because of that, I think that making the ZJ system was a bad idea. The game isn't made to support it, specially if it locks you on to one role from the very beginning, with no chance to change back or rethink your choice.

[arus2001]

I'm not really a fan of the lock, either. Especially if you mistakenly throw a bad party together/wrong class on wrong char statistically. Being more like XI where you EXP one job and little-to-none of that transfers to others would be preferable.

[Julian]

I thought I was going to hate it, but after playing through a decent chunk of the game, I find it rather enjoyable.

I'll agree that completely locking in the job is dumb, especially of you have no idea what you're doing going in. It's ok in the sense that you get a lot of replayability trying different set ups, but I'm an adult now, I barely have time to even play through the game once, ain't nobody got time for that shit anymore.

I think a good balance would have been to let you reset onto another board, but you lose, idk, half? Or some other percentage, of your job points or license points or whatever they called it. It should be steep because you shouldn't be changing at all, it would just be there to give you the opportunity to make adjustments if you feel you made a mistake, or if you just really badly want to try something different.

[arus2001]

No need for such a penalty. Just make it so you can only change someone's job in town. This means you can't be mid-dungeon and decide, "Hey, I'm going to burn the MP of this person I don't use on cures!" and swap them back to whatever. You either go in prepared or you don't. Someone wants to grind all jobs for all chars, cool.

[Teknique]

Dont forget they "Fixed" the zodiac lance being almost unatainable in this version if you open every treasure chest. i forget how you do it, but in the original there was something like 16 random bullshit chests you couldnt open.

[Tyrath]

Doesn't "fixing" it make it actually harder to get now because theres no easy avoid chests -> get spear method? At least as early as you could get it in the regular version.

[Omniyoji]

Not gonna lie, I never went for that spear in either version

[Elcura]

Doesn't "fixing" it make it actually harder to get now because theres no easy avoid chests -> get spear method? At least as early as you could get it in the regular version.

Considering that most normal playthroughs probably won't even see the spear due to low ass drop rate, vague spawn etc, it's probably an improvement. Was fun getting to the spear place as soon as possible then ripping the game to shreds with it though.

[Waraji]

Zodiac Spear in original version, there were 2-3 chests throughout the game you couldn't open for it to spawn in the 1 chest among the other 16 or w/e.

In the Int. Zodiac version, the removed that accessibility and you now had the option of doing the Hunt Club for the Spear, or some crazy % spawn chance chest in Henne Mines. If it spawned, it had spear 100%.

Some of the gear attaining methods in this game, I was never really into it. Would have preferred a challenging fight than to rely on the zoning RNG. Especially those % spawn chance chests with the 99% of NQ or .01% HQ weapon, I think there was a Katana with this feature I fondly remember hating.

[Auspice]

Zodiac Spear in original version, there were 2-3 chests throughout the game you couldn't open for it to spawn in the 1 chest among the other 16 or w/e.

In the Int. Zodiac version, the removed that accessibility and you now had the option of doing the Hunt Club for the Spear, or some crazy % spawn chance chest in Henne Mines. If it spawned, it had spear 100%.

Some of the gear attaining methods in this game, I was never really into it. Would have preferred a challenging fight than to rely on the zoning RNG. Especially those % spawn chance chests with the 99% of NQ or .01% HQ weapon, I think there was a Katana with this feature I fondly remember hating.

The one I remember loathing was before the Demon Wall that had a really good sword that I spent HOURS reloading until I got it. Goddamn, XII really was like the offline version of FFXI. lol

[Omniyoji]

That's why a lot of people on here like it