"God did not create Universe!", says Hawking.

[Mizango]

That's actually the opposite of a theory. A theory explains the nature of one thing by introducing causality. The Big Bang theory explains how the energy and matter that exist in the universe was created. Laws of physics explain why Big Bang could have occurred, but there really is no theory on why the laws are the way they are. Claiming that god exists simply because god exists is not a theory and does not magically explain the paradox of existence.

Can I buy you a beer?

[Mojo]

Can I buy you a beer?

Only if it's big and bangin'

[Mizango]

Only if it's big and bangin'

ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!

[Ashmada]

Actually he made that claim originally back in 1990ish iirc. I have a few of his books and I know he mentions it in "A brief history in time" and again in "On the shoulders on Giants". Typical reporters reporting on science

Ok, I should've said "the OP doesn't report Hawkins denying the existence of a god in his upcoming book, just its necessity."


Salodin : choosing to believe in something just because it can't be disproved is quite silly, as shown by philosopher Betrand Russell quite a while ago : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot.
And by the FSM, the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the like more recently.

[Sirenia]

Exactly, believing in something because it can't be disproven makes no sense. Accepting something because there is evidence makes sense.

[Knightmare]

People who believe in God don't believe that he exists for a fact. It's something called faith.

[Salodin]

I wouldn't say some one who believes in god (not religion) is believing in it because god can't be disproven, I think it would stem more from sciences current inability to explain the unexplained, and god's "existence" to put a "band-aid" on it.

It's probably because of the religious upbringing that I have that gives me trouble comprehending or wording it correctly, but I think the sufficient answer at the moment is I won't know because science doesn't know. It's frustrating to think that I might die not ever knowing, but then again I guess that's where a lot of painfully ignorant religious nuts come in and throw the "but WE do know, because God made it all!". I really want to go back to school now and study shit like this cause I find it all very interesting.

[Mizango]

People who believe in God don't believe that he exists for a fact. It's something called faith.

See also: Pascal's wager.

Flawed logic is flawed.

[BerenTebogo]

Not reading three pages on phone atm. Op topic is common sense info to anyone under the age of 50 or with any common sense whatsoever.

[Acturus]

People who believe in God don't believe that he exists for a fact. It's something called faith.

Faith is defined as belief in something without evidence. All too many people who believe in god believe in him because of evidence, not in spite of it. If God helped my son to be born without physical or mental defect, and God helped my wife get her new job, and God helped me get my FFXIV beta code on the first try, then that isn't faith, it's bad science.

[Knightmare]

Pascal's wager makes sense for Christianity but not for other religions.

[Knightmare]

What is it called when you only use the stupidest people from a group to prove that the entire group is stupid?

[BerenTebogo]

Pascal's wager makes sense for Christianity but not for other religions.

It makes sense for no religion. You can use the wager to justify your stupid beliefs, but you could still die and find out that xenu is pissed at your shenanigans and sends your ass to a volcanic soul catcher.

It is a dumb fucking pseudo-philosophical argument.

[Maxwell]

Faith is the absence of reason. It is a way to say "I'm naive" without feeling stupid about it.

Logic dictates our premises be based on evidence. Faith is the antithesis of this fact, thus faith is the antithesis of logic.

Additionally, as Acturus said, religious people don't have "faith" there is a god, they have "unreasonable assumptions based on bad logical leaps that have been fed to them over the years". No one believes in god "just because", they believe due to a lack of understanding of science, child upbringing, or illogical leaps in explaining life happenings (anything positive is "from god", anything negative is "part of the plan").

All human's are born atheists. They become theists as they develop the ability to ask "why/how" before they develop the ability to critically answer those questions.

[Ashmada]

What is it called when you only use the stupidest people from a group to prove that the entire group is stupid?

It's called lack of reading comprehension on your part. Neither Acturus nor myself (said the same thing earlier in the thread) made that statement.


Maxwell: actually, I've met some people that believe genuinely out of faith (or more likely fear), even a vicar that was well-versed in philosophy.
He understood the whole debate, but believed despite the evidence. Those people are a vast minority among believers, but they exist.

[Knightmare]

Faith is the absence of reason. It is a way to say "I'm naive" without feeling stupid about it.

Logic dictates our premises be based on evidence. Faith is the antithesis of this fact, thus faith is the antithesis of logic.

Additionally, as Acturus said, religious people don't have "faith" there is a god, they have "unreasonable assumptions based on bad logical leaps that have been fed to them over the years". No one believes in god "just because", they believe due to a lack of understanding of science, child upbringing, or illogical leaps in explaining life happenings (anything positive is "from god", anything negative is "part of the plan").

All human's are born atheists. They become theists as they develop the ability to ask "why/how" before they develop the ability to critically answer those questions.

Ever seen the movie "Contact" ?

[Snick]

Generally speaking, I hail science. Shit explains shit to me, and it makes me content.

I also, coincidentally, believe maybe there is a God out there. But he can leave this universe alone for all I care.

[Knightmare]

It's called lack of reading comprehension on your part. Neither Acturus nor myself (said the same thing earlier in the thread) made that statement.

I should have quoted it. Reread this page you'll find it.

[Ramor]

In his 1988 bestseller, A Brief History of Time, Prof Hawking appeared to accept the role of God in the creation of the Universe.

It would appear that most people find it very hard to believe that someone would change how they view the universe (or how they view anything else) because they learned something new, I really don't understand why people find that hard to believe or do.

Spoiler: show

http://www.manafont.org/rnd/017/yYEjp.jpg

stolen from the RIT but I find it fairly relevant to this thread.

[Mizango]

It's probably because of the religious upbringing that I have that gives me trouble comprehending or wording it correctly, but I think the sufficient answer at the moment is I won't know because science doesn't know. It's frustrating to think that I might die not ever knowing, but then again I guess that's where a lot of painfully ignorant religious nuts come in and throw the "but WE do know, because God made it all!". I really want to go back to school now and study shit like this cause I find it all very interesting.

I come from a southern baptist family and as far as I know the only non-christian in it. Now, I am not an Athiest, I dont do the label thing, but I get just upset when people that have absolutely, positively no background in science comment and make observations that make no sense whatsoever when it comes to the Cosmos and life in general. I chose to do this for a living and I love and protect it. I was in your shoes once, went to Sunday school, went to church 2 times a week, all that jazz, but church didn't do it for me. There were so many things that the bible and church made no goddamn sense on. I mean every facet of science from Dinosaurs, to geography, to space tell a completely different story than the one you're told growing up.

I mean I began to wonder why is it that we know that our moon is moving away from us at a rate of 2" a year give or take, or how we can take rock and soil samples and we see rocks from the east coast of the US match up in composition, density and make up with rocks on the African continent, yet are 100% different than any other rocks on other continents. At what point looking at that fact does it register than Pangea, Gondwana and the concept of there being super continents become an accepted fact? I mean is the fact that continents match up like a puzzle not good enough? My first college geology and geophysics classes were amazing. I could go on and on, but at some point you have to look at life around you and see things for what they really are, there is so much evidence to the contrary that its not even up for debate really.

Go to school, read about it, thats definitely a good thing. The one thing that bugged me about my youth in religion is you are taught to QUESTION NOTHING, ACCEPT ALL. Because if you do that's the devil casting doubt, and God hates doubt and you are running the risk of burning in hell for all of eternity. That didn't sit well with me, I mean to question what you're told and to stifle learning are the hallmarks of a cults. I mean it was troubling for me being black because growing up you're always reminded to take advantage of education, because its something our ancestors died for and would kill for, yet here was this man, standing at a podium, taking money and tell us collectively to not have doubt and not bother reading the lies of science. Whats there to be afraid of other than the truth?

So trust me, I feel you completely, we just have 2 different outlooks on it. Ive been where you are now, but you've yet to get to where I am, hopefully you will. Believe what you may, but never be afraid to read or to take the blinders off and look around. I mean look at Woozie, he's a Math and Physics double major and is going to grad school, he goes to church and believes and he's unquestionably my closest friend ever here on BG and out here in the world. We talk often and isnt an issue, I hope you find whatever it is that you are looking for, but the blind "my team is winning" thing is what makes a particular group come off as arrogant and opens you up for ridicule. Also, fuck my spelling, this is from my goddamn phone and I dont feel like rereading for typos