Are these controversies relevant to your impression of FFXIV

[Cephius]

A thread this long and no one mentioned that Blizzard used the standard "WoW Cave" about 900 times? Maybe people shouldn't flip out so easily. Okay? Okay.

In FFXI you had wide open spaces - like a desert! - which was just as easy to place as reusing the same rock formation a bunch of times. Acting like SE suddenly got "lazy" or something is silly.

[Cesaria]

Repeated terrain cells doesn't bother me (there's only so much you can do to make a rock look different really), sound effects on a too-short loop DO begin to bug the life out of me after a while (I'm thinking of a certain bird sound effect in Kazham I believe particularly on that one).

My impression of 14's always been right from the start that it's graphically stunning - but the gameplay underneath just still isn't very good. The graphics I have no problem with at all, and some of the zones are beautiful... and hell, the real world isn't filled with individually perfectly different visual elements anyway if you think about how many conversations you hear in large mall carparks about "how can you possibly lose the car darling?"

[Ksandra]

While it is perfectly fine to reuse models and textures and all games do it, most games, especially the good ones do not copy entire sections of the map.

A thread this long and no one mentioned that Blizzard used the standard "WoW Cave" about 900 times?

^ Mesiah you're point is null. Every small cave in wow is laid out the same way.

Again, not saying that wow is better, just that the average casual player doesn't care. And WoW is a good example of it.

10+ million people don't care about the caves, the same way 10+ million people won't care about some repeated sections on a map.

[Kylewhataru]

A thread this long and no one mentioned that Blizzard used the standard "WoW Cave" about 900 times? Maybe people shouldn't flip out so easily. Okay? Okay.

In FFXI you had wide open spaces - like a desert! - which was just as easy to place as reusing the same rock formation a bunch of times. Acting like SE suddenly got "lazy" or something is silly.

Yes but it's a cave... you go once and never see it again, it's alot more obvious when its with terrain.

It's like the rooms where you fight avatars in ff11, theyre all the same shit but it's not like you spend more than 1% of your playtime in them so who cares. But if they repeat stuff over and over on zones you spend hours in (I'm like level 10 and have wandered around gridania and its surrounding zones for dozens of hours, easily) then it makes it too obvious.

And it does take away from the immersion for me, and obviously many other people, people who aren't bothered by should shut up and enjoy then, but don't act like it's totally uncalled for and try to downplay legitimate concerns, it's a pitiful attempt at damage control. But the fact that fanboys are so adamant about proving it's not an issue tells me it IS an issue.

[miokomioko]

Uh... This thread isn't a question of "Hey, everyone else who wants to cry about this, speak up! Everyone else, go away!" it's a question of "Hey, does this bother anyone and is it worth crying about?"

No and no. I notice repetition of textures, structures, terrain, foliage, etc. in every fucking game I play. I, personally, can never be as fully immersed in a game as most others because of the basic knowledge of 3D design that I posses. If you know how things are built and where the shortcuts would be when doing so, you would constantly notice this shit in EVERY SINGLY GAME. You can't get away from it. Now, with that in mind, Final Fantasy XIV's environments are far more beautifully done and, yes, immersing than any other game I've seen of this genre. That sure as hell means something to me.

Take a nicely done environment like in FFXIII... Gran Pulse's Archelyte Steppe. There's no real noticeable terrain repetition in that area. Do you think that's all there is to it and that environment is much more "immersing" than anything in XIV? Then, take wandering around areas like Coertha with the music, the looming castle in the background, the wind whisteling/blowing, the large scale of everything you can see in the distance, etc. Way more polished overall than any other environment I've seen in an RPG.

I will grant that The Black Shroud is the worst in this game regarding the terrain repetition because you are always looking at the terrain from the same viewpoint. You can't wander around a large open area, seeing the same pre-built terrain pieces from different angles, increasing their re-usability.

[millionsknives]

Yes, every game has repetition of textures and models - and if people are actually complaining just on that aspect, well that's stupid.

The problem here is how obvious it is, SE has pretty much repeated meshes without angling, rotating or even mirroring. Every cave in Limsa slopes down to the left at the end, if they'd mirrored it in half of them it would have been at least a little less noticeable. But even so, there shouldn't be just *one* cave model in a next gen game, MMO or no MMO.

Like you say, ever game has repetition, but it should be done in a way that is a lot less noticeable then in XIV.

Edit: Also, before anyone compares the cave or the like to FFXI and WoW, this is the fabled next gen, like I said

[Hyan]

Lolnext-gen

Either the graphics look like from 2005 or there's repetition. Welcome to 2010 MMO gaming.

[Sephiroth]

And imagine if the maps looked like FFXI maps. This thread wouldn't exist.

This. SE shot themselves in the foot by giving people detailed maps. No one even noticed the issue until maps of the other regions were released. I guess it's not as obvious on the La Noscea map.

That Coerthas map should have just been a large green space without all the features, the majority of people wouldn't have noticed. On any run through a zone you'll see maybe 10% of it.

Has no one considered that all those crags in FFXI look the same from the outside? Giant features in the starting areas. No one ever complained about those or even cared. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the outposts use the same model too. You could find loads of things the same if you looked for it, but XI's maps are so lacking detail you couldn't use them for it. I don't know why half the player base suddenly became massive whiners.

[TacoTaru]

If I had to nitpick resources they're reusing, I think reusing XI mobs would rate higher on the list than reused terrain. Even then it still doesn't bother me, although there are some models I wish they'd redo or get rid of entirely (fuck puddings that's a shitty monster and it should feel bad).

[Ksandra]

Yes but it's a cave... you go once and never see it again, it's alot more obvious when its with terrain.

Did you ever play wow? (especially before the instant queues)


at 80 you probably go 1% into those caves, but from 1-79 half your quests are going into them. And often multiple times. to the same cave.

Let's not forget, a lot of buildings are the same, trees, and yes even rocks.

try to downplay legitimate concerns,

again I don't consider it a big deal because if 10+ million people don't, then I think SE isn't going to have an issue over it.

[notorious bum]

Lolnext-gen

Either the graphics look like from 2005 or there's repetition. Welcome to 2010 MMO gaming.

Sup GW2. Some companies just do it better. Even if the game plays like shit, least I'll feel like I'm in a next-gen game.

[Hyan]

I'm not sure what are you trying to say here.

GW2 doesn't look like shit? Damn, wish I had as low expectations as you do.

[notorious bum]

You're right, I can't run that shit on 3 monitor widescreen-mode, that's gimp.

Seriously, are your senses null by repetitive art design/dull color pallets? GW2 is beautiful from a designer perspective, I know it wont impress anyone with poly-counts, but come on, let's view it from a unbiased perspective.

[Hyan]

Unbiased perspective: Game that looks shitty but is at least well designed. There's your next-gen in a nutshell.

It's a fucking stupid word either way.

[Meresgi]

GW2 promises a ton of shit. I remember AoC doing the same thing

[notorious bum]

Unbiased perspective: Game that looks shitty but is at least well designed. There's your next-gen in a nutshell.

It's a fucking stupid word either way.

I can toast to that.

[miokomioko]

Yes, because low-level starting gear made with crappy, undyed leathers, wood, and hemp are going to be fucking vivid green/red/blue and adorned with gold/jewels (potential future colorful gear is seen on plenty of NPCs). Not sure where else the "dull color pallete" comment would come from, because it's definitely not from looking at the environments, unless you never bothered to set foot out of Thanalan (or look at a screenshot).

"Repetitive art design" makes me lolwut. What does that even mean and how is it anything but a comment pulled straight out of your ass? Sorry, but GW2 doesn't look any more "nexgen" than WKC.

[Hyan]

It does what other Western "MMO's" that try to be online RPG's should do (basically every one of them); cut the fucking crap grind, make it f2p and get cash off the box sales if the game's only gonna last a few months anyway. Then get more cash with expansion packs.

They call it an MMO but it doesn't even try to be one. Which makes it funny that someone thinks they "get it"- they indeed do get that no Western wants to play a real MMO, yet does not try to mask itself as one to get more subscription cash. Brilliant, and I'm sure it'll work too.

And it's not really surprising, because MMO's and convenience don't fit. You play an MMO, you deal with that shit. For everyone else (most people), there are online RPG's. MMO's are really not as mainstream as people think.

Fuck, PSO was awesome at the time. Online RPG's have been forgotten since then. Most people would be fine with a hub and instances you could teleport to killing bosses and shit with your friends. They even had a subscription model that worked (iirc). It's not an MMO, but it works a lot better than these pseudo-"MMO's" do imho.

[notorious bum]

Yes, because low-level starting gear made with crappy leathers, wood, and hemp are going to be fucking vivid green/red/blue and adorned with gold/jewels (potential future colorful gear is seen on plenty of NPCs). Not sure where else the "dull color pallete" comment would come from, because it's definitely not from looking at the environments, unless you never bothered to set foot out of Thanalan (or look at a screenshot).

"Repetitive art design" makes me lolwut. What does that even mean and how is it anything but a comment pulled straight out of your ass? Sorry, but GW2 doesn't look any more "nexgen" than WKC.

Its just personal taste, really. I'm not really that impressed even by the higher-tier armors, needs more fantasy in my Final Fantasy imo And the rest is just a jab at the topic at hand.

[Sephiroth]

Games don't generally tend to launch with the best looking equipment there will ever be. All that nice god gear and abjuration shit in XI didn't come until the first expansion. All that nice looking AF2 didn't come until later. Did you ever even see NPCs in AF1? You're talking out your ass if you try to judge an MMO's equipment set based on pre-level 30 common items and a few NPCs.

I get the impression that there's a lot of people whining (basically trolling) about FFXIV who never had any intentions to play it to begin with.