February 2018 Version Update

[Fwahm]

Just test Leaf Dagger on a Limule to get exact values.

[Nyarlko]

Just test Leaf Dagger on a Limule to get exact values.

How would I go about doing so? Why are Limules good targets?

[fantasticdan]

They have a move that will transfer debuffs back to you.

[dasva]

I'm not even looking for exact values, only confirmation on "does this work or not" basically. :/ It's also a bit counterintuitive to intentionally reduce your damage output in order to land the AEs, but there are a few that definitely seem worthwhile to keep up.

I know about how TP Drainkiss works, and was going on the assumption that it's actually draining the TP not wiping it like Feather Tickle. Figure between what gets drained + 15sec worth of TP gain would be enough to keep the pet at effectively 3k for every use, which should be enough to keep the boss rather tame. Not sure if it spams thru the charging on higher difficulties, but I imagine it should work thru at least Normal. I also know that Mewling's effect is reduced significantly, so if that happens w/ leech pet too, then it won't work. :/

Yeah most can work now it's more of a fanangle of when and if it will be worth it. Starting with max hp down is probably worth it... and except that brief period of ilvl mobs and 99 pets has been fairly accurate. mdb has seemed pretty accurate and useful to me. Infrasonics used to be okish to land but amazing if you did before they nerfed it. Acid mist has always been pretty easy to land on anything near your level but not sure with underleveled pet. The other slug move was pretty good too. Most debuffs you'd actually want are from moves that aren't the most dmg efficient to begin with so macc gearing them isn't too crazy. The biggest problem I had with them was keeping them up. You wont get the message that it wears and if it's an additional effect you wont even get landed message so wont know if it landed or if it even could land. Though for hp down that doesn't matter as much since 1 and done.

It does however actually drain however nms in particular are going to be spamming moves at lower hps so you often might be draining less than 1k. Which highly minimizes how much it will effect the next one if at all. That said pretty sure leech is a war so gearing for max tp bonus even with no tp you can use it at effective 2840 which is pretty good for this. Charges are an interesting problem... you can use it about as much as a smn and twice as often as /smn but well people using mewling often had extra randoms doing /smn

[dasva]

They have a move that will transfer debuffs back to you.

Molting Burst. iirc it's only light element ones. Gnat's also have a couple of moves that do it too but they have more moves so might take awhile.

Nowadays though pvp is the easiest at least for macc and potency. Things like dmg and macc are kind of funky in their so hard to properly test

[jacobs67]

There's a shield with Enchantment: Contagion Transfer that gives you any debuff on the enemy (only 1 at a time) so it could be useful for testing

[Spicyryan]

There's a shield with Enchantment: Contagion Transfer that gives you any debuff on the enemy (only 1 at a time) so it could be useful for testing

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Absorbing_Shield

[Nyarlko]

Molting Burst. iirc it's only light element ones. Gnat's also have a couple of moves that do it too but they have more moves so might take awhile.

Nowadays though pvp is the easiest at least for macc and potency. Things like dmg and macc are kind of funky in their so hard to properly test

I don't know how to PvP. ._.;; Seriously. Did it like twice BITD, and never since I came back a couple years ago... There were also issues with testing stuff due to how players get buffed in it IIRC, and have no idea how to back anything out to account for that sort of thing.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Absorbing_Shield

If anyone has one of these they'd be willing to give/sell me, I'm interested. >_> A grand total of ONE sold on AH all of 2017. lol orz

[Spicyryan]

I don't know how to PvP. ._.;; Seriously. Did it like twice BITD, and never since I came back a couple years ago... There were also issues with testing stuff due to how players get buffed in it IIRC, and have no idea how to back anything out to account for that sort of thing.



If anyone has one of these they'd be willing to give/sell me, I'm interested. >_> A grand total of ONE sold on AH all of 2017. lol orz

Fight is uncapped.

[Nyarlko]

Fight is uncapped.

Yeah, I looked it up. Was just hoping I could be lazy.

Anyone know if it can be resisted?

[Spicyryan]

Yeah, I looked it up. Was just hoping I could be lazy.

Anyone know if it can be resisted?

You will tell us I'm sure .

[Nyarlko]

You will tell us I'm sure .

Yep. lol Just wanted to steel myself for it if it was already known that it could resist, since the damnable thing has a 1hour CD. -_-;;;;
Just grabbed myself 2x of 'em, and even updated the BCNM page with my drops to boot. Can someone take a look at the page for BG Wiki - Kindergarten Cap, I don't know how to make the event items show up. :/ And BG Wiki - Moa Constrictors since I now think the relic reforge mats may be campaign-onry.

Posting my slowly gained pet testing findings over here. And yes, either the shield can be resisted, or Pentapeck's amnesia didn't land twice in a row.. (Honestly leaning towards failure to proc since had zero issues 4x in a row before that with other moves.) Already found a bugged Ready too! :D Maybe if I can find more, I can prod them into repairing BST. <,<;; /wishfulthinking

[Spicyryan]

Yep. lol Just wanted to steel myself for it if it was already known that it could resist, since the damnable thing has a 1hour CD. -_-;;;;
Just grabbed myself 2x of 'em, and even updated the BCNM page with my drops to boot. Can someone take a look at the page for BG Wiki - Kindergarten Cap, I don't know how to make the event items show up. :/ And BG Wiki - Moa Constrictors since I now think the relic reforge mats may be campaign-onry.

Posting my slowly gained pet testing findings over here. And yes, either the shield can be resisted, or Pentapeck's amnesia didn't land twice in a row.. (Honestly leaning towards failure to proc since had zero issues 4x in a row before that with other moves.) Already found a bugged Ready too! :D Maybe if I can find more, I can prod them into repairing BST. <,<;; /wishfulthinking

SE ignored BLU's shit not landing for the better part of a decade so GL with that.

Reason they didn't show up is because the other columns are dependent on the primary treasure= being filled. I fixed it, ty.

[dasva]

I don't know how to PvP. ._.;; Seriously. Did it like twice BITD, and never since I came back a couple years ago... There were also issues with testing stuff due to how players get buffed in it IIRC, and have no idea how to back anything out to account for that sort of thing.

Neither do I. But there is a special battlefield you can reserve with points that you can either do the old game thing or use AMAN. Weird things in there mostly have to do with resist (especially building resists) and there is some weird dmg modifier. But otherwise pretty good testing tool

, or Pentapeck's amnesia didn't land twice in a row.. (Honestly leaning towards failure to proc since had zero issues 4x in a row before that with other moves.) Already found a bugged Ready too! :D Maybe if I can find more, I can prod them into repairing BST. <,<;; /wishfulthinking

That's always seemed fairly inaccurate which makes sense considering how OP it can be

[Spicyryan]

Penta-ing Lullaby, destroyer of worlds.

If only..

[Nyarlko]

Finally got around to throwing Fatso Fargann at AmbuV1VE (since no horse makes it easy to poke):

* Popped TP Drainkiss @3k > Got 3k. Didn't happen too often since it normally doesn't like to sit on full TP. Does not appear to be resistable, even though it's icon is dark element. Full expected effect based on pet/target TP every time.
* Kept boss TP starved/drained after a Boil message. Only August+Fatso feeding tp, using TPDK every 30sec. Didn't use any TP moves for 5min, until I allowed it to. (More like I got bored, WS'd and there's no extra time window.) Proceeded to Nether Castigation for 2k and wiped my trusts. :3 Did cast spells during this time.
* Nether Castigation may simply cost 3k TP to use. Would make the above behavior make perfect sense.
* Entering Charging mode counts as a TP move. So does entering Boiling mode. It has 0TP immediately after either message.
* Boiling mode = Boss gains a 300TP/tick Regain aura, affects pets as well as players. Just about impossible for pet to not be at 3k TP when spamming TPDK to lock it into Boiling mode.
* Atramentous Oblations is TP-based damage. No TP = 100dmg or less. Full TP feed = 1500dmg or more. XD
* Acid Mist did seem to reduce AOE damage, but could've been placebo or TP-related. :/
* Drainkiss did surprisingly decent damage but did not restore pet's HP (of course, since boss is undead.)
* Suction did 5k-8k, which seems high for this fight and 114 pet, w/ zero buffs. Seemed like the stun proc'd a few times too, but wouldn't rely on it.

BST SMN SMN in the DD slots w/ BST spamming TPDK to lock it into Boiling Mode should be a safer win than 3x SMN. If everyone disengages pets, hangs out in aura range, re-engages pets for BP/Readys, repeat.. should never see anything from boss other than casted spells, none of which are scary other than Death Spikes. I hear it's silenceable too, so should theoretically be able to lock it into melee-swings onry even. XD Might take a bit longer since BST won't be contributing much DPS, but absolutely safe fight vs a neutered boss as long as you keep up the TPDK spam.

... Now to convince other players to let me test on higher difficulties while not solo. >.> lol

[Spicyryan]

Finally got around to throwing Fatso Fargann at AmbuV1VE (since no horse makes it easy to poke):

* Popped TP Drainkiss @3k > Got 3k. Didn't happen too often since it normally doesn't like to sit on full TP. Does not appear to be resistable, even though it's icon is dark element. Full expected effect based on pet/target TP every time.
* Kept boss TP starved/drained after a Boil message. Only August+Fatso feeding tp, using TPDK every 30sec. Didn't use any TP moves for 5min, until I allowed it to. (More like I got bored, WS'd and there's no extra time window.) Proceeded to Nether Castigation for 2k and wiped my trusts. :3 Did cast spells during this time.
* Nether Castigation may simply cost 3k TP to use. Would make the above behavior make perfect sense.
* Entering Charging mode counts as a TP move. So does entering Boiling mode. It has 0TP immediately after either message.
* Boiling mode = Boss gains a 300TP/tick Regain aura, affects pets as well as players. Just about impossible for pet to not be at 3k TP when spamming TPDK to lock it into Boiling mode.
* Atramentous Oblations is TP-based damage. No TP = 100dmg or less. Full TP feed = 1500dmg or more. XD
* Acid Mist did seem to reduce AOE damage, but could've been placebo or TP-related. :/
* Drainkiss did surprisingly decent damage but did not restore pet's HP (of course, since boss is undead.)
* Suction did 5k-8k, which seems high for this fight and 114 pet, w/ zero buffs. Seemed like the stun proc'd a few times too, but wouldn't rely on it.

BST SMN SMN in the DD slots w/ BST spamming TPDK to lock it into Boiling Mode should be a safer win than 3x SMN. If everyone disengages pets, hangs out in aura range, re-engages pets for BP/Readys, repeat.. should never see anything from boss other than casted spells, none of which are scary other than Death Spikes. I hear it's silenceable too, so should theoretically be able to lock it into melee-swings onry even. XD Might take a bit longer since BST won't be contributing much DPS, but absolutely safe fight vs a neutered boss as long as you keep up the TPDK spam.

... Now to convince other players to let me test on higher difficulties while not solo. >.> lol

You lost me at 114 pet, they should all be 119.

[Nyarlko]

You lost me at 114 pet, they should all be 119.

Nope. Fatso Fargann is from https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/C._Plasma_Broth, has natural lvl cap of 99, which means it maxes out at 114. @_@;; Jug pets are needlessly complicated compared to avatars/automatons... And we have no natively 119 leech pet. Main point there was that it did a lot better than I was expecting it to.

[dasva]

Yeah the fact individual jug pet caps are still a thing is kind of dumb. It's probably part of why we wont ever see +familiar level and why +call beast is such an outdated stat

[Nyarlko]

Yeah the fact individual jug pet caps are still a thing is kind of dumb. It's probably part of why we wont ever see +familiar level and why +call beast is such an outdated stat

Call Beast +2 (relic hands) is only there to remove the shitty RNG debuff that pets can spawn with otherwise. -_-;; It feels like 1/2 the reasoning behind them not changing things to work simply is actually DUE to relic hands and Beast Affinity existing..

On a more positive note, what I've been doing is basically how SE decreed I should be playing BST. O_o All my damage during the test runs was from master/WS while pet was relegated to white dmg / tp feed and utility Ready move spam. And it has actually been rather fun doing things differently than I normally do. ^^ Making me wish I had another solid/capped Purgation tho. lol

Does anyone know what's the minimum difficulty to see things like Death Spikes or Miasma-mode? I have not seen either of those on VE/E, and need to test vs Miasma. (Need to know what the TP req is for entering Miasma mode, and if Ready counts as a WS to trigger mode exit.)

EDIT: Also, looks like all the new mobs (incl. ambu boss) have been added to the mob element jpdb, so I'll be updating our spreadsheet today! Gtrans slightly cleaned copy/pasta for him tho:

Bozzetto Retributionist (Model of Abdullus - Legion)
Magical Damage + 12.5%
Magical Defense 200
Fire 50% Wind 30% Lightning 30% Light 70%
Water 20% Earth 25% Ice 25% Dark 15%

An individual appearing in the ambuscade. Ice spikes (Tayafashi), dread spikes (over tenacity), Endark II, Aspir II · III, all Absorbs, stun (AOE with difficulty), Bio III.
Using the special skill "Charging Up" dedicated to that, one of the logs of "Boss starts to accumulate power", "Boss begins to accumulate grudge", "Boss started to accumulate spirit" flows.
In case of force develop TP absorption spike. The special technique to be used next is "Atramentous Oblation" (self center range damage + multiple buff absorption).
Impacting additional effects when cumulative damage equal to or greater than the threshold is hit during accumulation Multiple absorption disappears.
In case of grudge develop a TP + 300/3 sec regain sphere to PC. The special technique to be used next becomes "Nether Castigation" (own center range damage) itself.
The cumulative damage impacted while accumulating, the power rises, damage is bounced up to about 3,000 for easy, and up to around 60000 for extreme.
Even in the case of miasma develop TP absorption spike. The special technique to be used next will be "Eizen Schneider" (own range instant death).
If you hit WS (even 0 bad) in the middle of accumulation it will be canceled and switch to a grudge pool.
Also, PC can invalidate instant death if it is in healing state when Eisen Schneider is hit.
Magic becomes only spike from HP 5%, special skill will use only Noahianto (self center range dark damage + human killer).

Sounds like:
* If you feed enough TP to break thru Retribution TP spikes, the next Atra. will not absorb any buffs.
* NC has a damage cap associated with difficulty. Doesn't matter much if you take 3k vs 60k, yer dead either way.
* Eisen Schneider is like Odin's move. Anyone feel like verifying that you don't take damage instead of death if /heal 'ing when it hits?