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  1. #1
    Smells like Onions
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    Question: Abj "2" ideas...?

    I've been a reader of this forum for a while now (while in Italy for school, forums are all I have since my apartment seems incapable of getting internet of my own) and while I have enjoyed a lot of the discussions, I have one question. Many people have asked for a second abj. set to surpass that of the 3 kings (and sky but mainly the 3 kings).

    The question that's been circulating in my mind is what exactly would this upgraded abjs be like? I mean, honestly, how much stronger would people want "Koeing +1" (and I dont mean Kaiser ) and "Adamant +1" etc. to be?

    They are already (arguable I guess) the most powerful armor sets in the game, but the question becomes, if they have been available for over two years, why hasn't there been an upgrade?

    I guess the question I have to that is the same question many people have about raising the level cap: wouldn't that make so much of the game too easy? I mean, the original endgame (the birds and Serket and the Beastmen Kings) are already a joke, but endgame intended for level 60s should be a joke for 75s, yet Sky (for example) is still aimed at 75s, though perhaps not with the 200+ merits many people now have.

    And I also understand the concept of a MMO endgame should be constantly increasing in difficulty, and said difficulty should increase in greater rewards. Please don't consider this question a defense of what CoP endgame has become (I find its execution as troubling as everyone else's) but I do find the concept to be a good one, ie CoP focused on all the other complimentary slots outside the 5 main body armor ones. They just aren't as good as they should be.

    So, people have been suggesting things for the expansion (I liked that thread a lot when it doesn't derail into drama, despite the fun in that) and I just wonder how much of an upgrade for level 75 armor are people looking for? (Just looking at the body pieces for example.) If Koeing is +20 Vit and 60 HP and Adamant is +10 STR and DEX and +15 attack and acc, what do people expect from "Abj II" that wouldn't be considered "breaking the game" @ 75? That is the heart of my question. ^^

    Anyway, you guys have been keeping my interest alive even if I can't play on my own, and oh yes. I <3 Xavier! Every time he posts he makes me smile!

  2. #2
    Sea Torques
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    Re: Question: Abj "2" ideas...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndis1
    Anyway, you guys have been keeping my interest alive even if I can't play on my own, and oh yes. I <3 Xavier! Every time he posts he makes me smile!
    Xavier's E-peen is so lucky

  3. #3
    blax n gunz
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    I don't really want abj. II (yay more vokespam drama in a crowded zone every 24 hours).

    I just want to see more gear emerge that reduces the current demand for abj. I honestly don't care if abjuration in some slots is still the best gear for some jobs 2 years running.

    There are examples of steps in the right direction. WHM (nobles), BLM (weskit), and now SMN (yingyang) have no use at all for dalmatica because better gear is available outside of a nidhogg camp.

    If only the same were true of the cape all 3 jobs want.

    If only the same would happen for e.bd and all the jobs that can equp it, or m.bd and paladins who will stop at nothing until they have have consumed all. Instead they got gear that's kind of good but not really (barone) or gear that is situational (valor) at best. It's not an attractive alternative when what you must kill/defeat takes 3 times the people, time and luck. There's a reason 100 people still stare at darters for 3 hours every day in dragon's aery. That reason needs to go away, or fall in the face of better things to do.

  4. #4
    New Spam Forum
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    We were having a talk about this just a couple minutes ago on our vent server. I think the problem with the end game is the unbalanced loot tables. People want something from the Harder HNMs in the game and instead of getting better, the harder the HNMs get the worse the gear becomes. Also if you kill the 3 kings you get at least one abj., it maybe D.Feet but it is something, Tiamat, 2 fire Crystals, JoL nothing. The idea of Adj +1's would be a huge balance issue, but hte fact that the loot tables get worse is something I can not seem to figure out. Were stuck camping Nidhogg for M.Bodies while on Bismarck, no one really looks at Vrtra.

  5. #5
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawas
    We were having a talk about this just a couple minutes ago on our vent server. I think the problem with the end game is the unbalanced loot tables. People want something from the Harder HNMs in the game and instead of getting better, the harder the HNMs get the worse the gear becomes. Also if you kill the 3 kings you get at least one abj., it maybe D.Feet but it is something, Tiamat, 2 fire Crystals, JoL nothing. The idea of Adj +1's would be a huge balance issue, but hte fact that the loot tables get worse is something I can not seem to figure out. Were stuck camping Nidhogg for M.Bodies while on Bismarck, no one really looks at Vrtra.
    Zilart expansion > CoP expansion

    Zilart mobs drop things Garunteed, CoP mobs forgot their stuff in their moghouse so you dont get them on drop :\

  6. #6

    Re: Question: Abj "2" ideas...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndis1
    I guess the question I have to that is the same question many people have about raising the level cap: wouldn't that make so much of the game too easy? I mean, the original endgame (the birds and Serket and the Beastmen Kings) are already a joke, but endgame intended for level 60s should be a joke for 75s, yet Sky (for example) is still aimed at 75s, though perhaps not with the 200+ merits many people now have.
    Hypothetically Zilart hnms would already be easy for people who can obtain Cursed 2.0, and it's not like it's challenging for the strongest shells anymore. And that's the point, people want new challenges that obsolete the old ones. There are always new and up and coming shells that would love to have the kings to themselves instead of competing with people who are after abjurations for their member's 5th job.

    So, people have been suggesting things for the expansion (I liked that thread a lot when it doesn't derail into drama, despite the fun in that) and I just wonder how much of an upgrade for level 75 armor are people looking for? (Just looking at the body pieces for example.) If Koeing is +20 Vit and 60 HP and Adamant is +10 STR and DEX and +15 attack and acc, what do people expect from "Abj II" that wouldn't be considered "breaking the game" @ 75? That is the heart of my question. ^^
    Enhances killer effects. Regen. +Enmity. +Critical hit rate. +Haste. There's a lot of things they could add that would be nice.

  7. #7
    New Spam Forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawas
    We were having a talk about this just a couple minutes ago on our vent server. I think the problem with the end game is the unbalanced loot tables. People want something from the Harder HNMs in the game and instead of getting better, the harder the HNMs get the worse the gear becomes. Also if you kill the 3 kings you get at least one abj., it maybe D.Feet but it is something, Tiamat, 2 fire Crystals, JoL nothing. The idea of Adj +1's would be a huge balance issue, but hte fact that the loot tables get worse is something I can not seem to figure out. Were stuck camping Nidhogg for M.Bodies while on Bismarck, no one really looks at Vrtra.
    Zilart expansion > CoP expansion

    Zilart mobs drop things Garunteed, CoP mobs forgot their stuff in their moghouse so you dont get them on drop :\
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../Placidity.jpg

    A couple hours worth of Ix'Aern '-'
    The ??? never left the Western spawn either.

  8. #8
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zim
    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    Zilart expansion > CoP expansion

    Zilart mobs drop things Garunteed, CoP mobs forgot their stuff in their moghouse so you dont get them on drop :\
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../Placidity.jpg

    A couple hours worth of Ix'Aern '-'
    The ??? never left the Western spawn either.
    cheers to popping Brigandish Blade in Sea. now show me an inventory of 3 sets of 4th, 5th and 6th Virtues and i'll show you 3 sets of Kirin Seals.

    and show me all the Capes you got along with that and i'll show you all the Zenith Mitts, Shura Haidates, Byakko Haidates, Divine Logs, Behemoth Hides, etc, etc from our last run at Sky pop items.

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by layoneil
    and show me all the Capes you got along with that and i'll show you all the Zenith Mitts, Shura Haidates, Byakko Haidates, Divine Logs, Behemoth Hides, etc, etc from our last run at Sky pop items.
    And despite the better drop rates, 2 years later, still doing Sky. Sea is soo sooooo broken.

  10. #10

    This topic has been discussed recently on Lakshmi as well and it's something that I feel very stronly about. The recent updates which feature AF1 and 2 +1 items have been very dissapointing in that they do very little to actually increase the strength of your character. Even the drops from the second Bahamut BC seem very weak considering what you're fighting. So weak in fact that it's hard to motivate an LS to even go through what it takes to fight the mob in the first place. In the end, we all end up going back to BD (we hit the 200+ mark there the other night) or DA and sitting there for 3-4 hours.

    I've had 4/5 koenig for about 5 months now (just missing pants) and I definately think it's the best HNM tanking armor. What I've been wanting to see for an incredibly long time is a set with a significant amount of -%dmg reduction and that's what could be done with abj's set #2. If there was a body that offered -10% reduction out there it would be incredibly exciting for me and it would definately relieve some of the pressure for getting koenig body. Also, a "baby" defending ring that would be stronger than jelly ring but not quite as high -% as the real thing would be great in my oppinion. D. ring would still be the godliest but there would be something else out there that would improve your character without having to devote 1 year+ of your life camping KB to get it. The point I'm trying to make is that the new stuff would not be incredibly better than the old to the point where it would "break" the game but it would make it so that the people who have the new really hard to get stuff make open a few new possibilities for tanking very hard hitting stuff.

  11. #11

    Re: Question: Abj "2" ideas...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndis1
    (I find its execution as troubling as everyone else's)
    lol XD

  12. #12
    Ridill
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    There are many things that could be put onto Cursed II that the current cursed gear doesn't have, it just takes a little imagination.

    Imagine a mage piece that had an effect like "Occasionally turns a proportion of magic damage to MP", even if the effect went off 20% of the time for 5-10% it would still be hot for Dynamis, Kirin, Ouryu, even solo.

    Or a new PLD set that had the same defense as Relic, but 30% physical damage reduction 25% breath damage reduction and 20% magic damage reduction.

    Or a Red Mage set with increased Refresh and Haste effect duration and en-spell damage +25%. (Bonus points for Phalanx bonus +20%. Drool.)

    It's not that difficult to come up with new stuff, just play the game and listen to people, you just have to find the balance between useless (RDM JSE) and game breaking. And don’t listen to the people on Allakazham...

  13. #13
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    There are many things that could be put onto Cursed II that the current cursed gear doesn't have, it just takes a little imagination.

    Imagine a mage piece that had an effect like "Occasionally turns a proportion of magic damage to MP", even if the effect went off 20% of the time for 5-10% it would still be hot for Dynamis, Kirin, Ouryu, even solo.

    Or a new PLD set that had the same defense as Relic, but 30% physical damage reduction 25% breath damage reduction and 20% magic damage reduction.

    Or a Red Mage set with increased Refresh and Haste effect duration and en-spell damage +25%. (Bonus points for Phalanx bonus +20%. Drool.)

    It's not that difficult to come up with new stuff, just play the game and listen to people, you just have to find the balance between useless (RDM JSE) and game breaking. And don’t listen to the people on Allakazham...

  14. #14
    Old Merits
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    I'd like to see some melee armor that doesn't involve camping a dragon for 3 hours for a few months that bst and war can use that is actually an improvement over a hauberk. Maybe if that Assault Breastplate has some crazy hidden effect I'll be content.

  15. #15
    Smells like Onions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Imagine a mage piece that had an effect like "Occasionally turns a proportion of magic damage to MP", even if the effect went off 20% of the time for 5-10% it would still be hot for Dynamis, Kirin, Ouryu, even solo.

    Or a new PLD set that had the same defense as Relic, but 30% physical damage reduction 25% breath damage reduction and 20% magic damage reduction.

    Or a Red Mage set with increased Refresh and Haste effect duration and en-spell damage +25%. (Bonus points for Phalanx bonus +20%. Drool.)
    Yeah, I could see how a new PLD set like that could work (not sure why I'm focusing on PLD since I'm not one, though Koeing seems to be a Abj set people are most familar with and accept the most as being dominant). I guess my question was more one of how much of an "upgrade" would people expect? I have this feeling that if Abj II gear was simply 10% or so better than Abj I people would be complaining even more. But if it focused on other things complimentary to Abj I could see it working. Maybe it is simply the idea of Abj. version 2.0 that has me hung up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    It's not that difficult to come up with new stuff, just play the game and listen to people, you just have to find the balance between useless (RDM JSE) and game breaking. And don’t listen to the people on Allakazham...
    But it's SE... more Wise gear inc... (which of course is the only substantial new gear set added from CoP that's leathercrafted, my craft. If there is a new Abj set, can I please have a leather set that's more than just making shoes? Leathercraft isn't about tanning, it's shoemaking... ) OK, that rant's over. ^^

  16. #16
    Sea Torques
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    more cursed food please!

  17. #17
    Xavier
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    Square's endgame progression falls into two categories.

    1) None

    2)
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/images/items/speedbelt.jpg
    becomes
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/kricube/sash.jpg
    which is still not as good as
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/images/it...Black-Belt.jpg

    Example #2 is a good item Square put into the game data that utterly replaces a previously good piece of gear. Except, nobody saw the fat kid flicking people off in the corner when it was released, and actually thought they could get it. Joke was on them.

    So putting unobtainable gear into the game, or just not putting it in at all in the root of the problem. The stats found on Ninurta's Sash though are basically the kind of stats that I'd add to ABJ 2.0 or w/e to further improve them. If every melee was capable of getting like subtle blow +50, the tp system wouldn't even need to be changed. The Sash was the most obvious gear I could find where Square "almost" did it right.

  18. #18

    They can at least add things such as Cursed Belts, Capes, Earrings, and Rings since they decided to grant us such useless things as Cursed Soup and the all so elusive Cursed Beverage.

  19. #19
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varnx
    They can at least add things such as Cursed Belts, Capes, Earrings, and Rings since they decided to grant us such useless things as Cursed Soup and the all so elusive Cursed Beverage.
    Ambrosia is actually one of the best foods that you can eat when you are leveling a job from 1 to 12. Adding 7 to every stat and +7 resting HP and MP are unbelievable at those levels. Even at high levels, you are hard-pressed to find a food with more MND and INT for mages. (Only Goblin Mushpot has more MND, but no INT and no +resting MP.)

    Cursed rings, belts, capes, and earrings would be nice, I wouldn't mind a few more cursed food dishes either...

  20. #20
    New Spam Forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by layoneil
    Quote Originally Posted by Zim
    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    Zilart expansion > CoP expansion

    Zilart mobs drop things Garunteed, CoP mobs forgot their stuff in their moghouse so you dont get them on drop :\
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../Placidity.jpg

    A couple hours worth of Ix'Aern '-'
    The ??? never left the Western spawn either.
    cheers to popping Brigandish Blade in Sea. now show me an inventory of 3 sets of 4th, 5th and 6th Virtues and i'll show you 3 sets of Kirin Seals.

    and show me all the Capes you got along with that and i'll show you all the Zenith Mitts, Shura Haidates, Byakko Haidates, Divine Logs, Behemoth Hides, etc, etc from our last run at Sky pop items.
    I'm referring to the drop rates. 7/7 on one days worth of Ix'Aern this past Tuesday. It's just ironic seeing that months ago it took countless Ix'Aerns to receive the two Fifth Virtues in that photo. We're probably 2/30 on Cape and 10/30 on Deed. Congratulations on your Byakko success, though. Sounds like a good drop.

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